Is the word ‘master’ about to become socially unacceptable?

[sst1234]

Just heard a debate on tv about whether the word ‘master’ conjures up images of slavery and if it is appropriate as in ‘masterchef’ and ‘master bedroom’. What? Really? I am speechless. Anyone taking offence to this is not just barking mad but is politically correct to the detriment of real issues in the world that need attention.

Offshore Yachtmaster...that doesn't translate well into anything else.

Sailed Too Far Out? Aim the Pointy End in the Right Direction Person???

@EwanTheMelatoninSheep

Fuck I hope not. What else will DH call me in the bedroom?

😂😂😂😂😂 You grasped the issue here 😂😂😂

I just laugh now at how "woke" society is becoming. It's pathetic.

When did the possibility of offending someone supercede another persons right to free speech.

If someone chooses to say something absolutely outrageous then that should be their right.

@hela1 I never thought of it in that light, interesting.

On the one hand I see no reason to object to dropping master and slave terminology in tech for something more descriptive. I did find myself uncomfortable when I wanted to refer to a 'whitelist' and 'blacklist' last week, so I don't mind those terms being changed and colour restricted to description either. I see no reason to upset people unduly. On the other, I find it alarming that in the UK we're being so dominated by issues that are more particularly relevant to the US. I also find it worrying that people are so alarmed by terms last in real use in the UK 300 or 400 years ago to be perfectly honest. Although I accept scars, I do not like witch hunts.

@hela1 I think there's a lot of truth in what you say. I've read similar from a few Americans I follow on Twitter but they've not gone into as much detail as you have in your post, though they do seem quite exasperated by the fixation on being African. They simply say you're not African, you're American. The commentators are black fwiw.

Pondering in the aisles of Bunnings the other day I wondered how long the descriptions of male and female for various bits of electronics, screws, plumbing, etc. will last.

It's rife, I tell ya. :o

On the one hand I see no reason to object to dropping master and slave terminology in tech for something more descriptive. I did find myself uncomfortable when I wanted to refer to a 'whitelist' and 'blacklist' last week, so I don't mind those terms being changed and colour restricted to description either.

I'm forever asking for IP addresses to be added to a whitelist at the moment and don't feel at all uncomfortable or give it a second thought, it's simply what the list is called and I suspect the people updating the list don't give it a second thought either.

Has everything now got to be changed to satisfy the professionally outraged. It's complete madness.

I have seen it questioned; I'm not the only person who feels uncomfortable about it. Did you never object to the term 'mankind' as a woman? I did, and nagged several men about it. I've studied in fields where the difference between mankind and humanity mattered, where the presumption that women and children's affairs and biology could be subsumed into men's made - and makes for that matter - a big hole in knowledge. So I can see why using white and black as terms of good and bad could be a bit troublesome. The only issue I have with it is that white being a sign of good things - celebrations, happiness etc - and black being used to mean bad things back goes a long way back and many of them don't have anything to do with skin colour. We can't just kick all these associations out of our culture overnight, and that difficulty is not necessarily a sign of ingrained racism.

That, and of course the absolute precision demanded in use of language now is beyond many of us, probably all of us at times.

On the one hand I see no reason to object to dropping master and slave terminology in tech for something more descriptive. I did find myself uncomfortable when I wanted to refer to a 'whitelist' and 'blacklist' last week, so I don't mind those terms being changed and colour restricted to description either. I see no reason to upset people unduly. On the other, I find it alarming that in the UK we're being so dominated by issues that are more particularly relevant to the US. I also find it worrying that people are so alarmed by terms last in real use in the UK 300 or 400 years ago to be perfectly honest. Although I accept scars, I do not like witch hunts.

"dominated"?

(Grabs pitchfork).

oops.

@memememoi

There is context in this.

Master bedroom as in the Slave Master's Bedroom... if you don't know how disgusting and loaded this is then I suggest you do some reading because judging from a lot of the replies, a lot of you do not have the range.

A lot of terms we use are deep rooted in racism. Just because they're "normal" long standing terms, and the trauma of being on the receiving end doesn't apply to you, it doesn't make it "political correctness gone mad".

Some of the responses in this thread are just 🥴🥴

Well if people find the word offensive, fair enough, they don't have to use it. Up to them.

I think there is always something; some word or phrase or behaviour that is going to offend somebody. Live and let live.

That is, I tolerate others being offended by things or being ultra-woke, but I don't see the need to jump on this particular bandwagon myself.

@SerenityNowwwww

Oh I know - I was pondering black/African cutler then remembered reading an autobiography of a Nigerian writer who lived in London (as a teacher) and would get dogs abuse for being African by her West Indian pupils. So you are right - different things.

We saw a man walking along yesterday in what I could only describe as very outdated Japanese religious clothing with his long hair pulled up into a top knot. I don’t know huge amounts but that’s what I assumed it was.

He didn’t look like he was going to work or a party and he was European looking. We couldn’t quite work out of he was appropriating not only a race and religion - but also historically appropriating it too.

LOL regarding the white man in Japanese clothing. I couldn't work up outrage about that myself- a man from a non-oppressed race wearing possibly historical and cultural and religious clothing from a member of another non-oppressed race.....I really would not give it a thought beyond "that is unusual to see someone non-Japanese wearing Japanese clothing". But then my sister lived in Japan for some years and bought kimono and other Japanese clothing; I never for one moment would have considered it appropriation.

@HeLa1

I doubt any black person is offended by the use of “master” and I do believe it is a way for companies to avoid doing any real work in combating racism.

On the other hand, I am liking this climate of reflection. Every day words can foster racial prejudice even unconsciously, for example I don’t like to use words like “blacklist” just like every day words like “fireman” and “mankind” perpetuate sexism.

I'm not sure I think that this is a climate of reflection, nor that it is doing anything in terms of reducing prejudice in the environment.

As somebody who was once comatose after an accident I find the term "woke" triggering.

Policing people's language to this degree is ridiculous. I can only hope it will backfire as people see how stupid it is.

Unfortunately, I'm not confident that sanity and common sense will prevail. Too many people care more about how a few claim to feel about something than they do about whether or not their argument makes sense.

The worlds gone mad, they can change all the words they like but it’s not getting to the route of the matter. Everyone should be treated equally irrespective of race or creed.

For those saying that master/slave terminology is common in tech, I use the terms parent/child for that context.

Does this mean it'll now be offensive to call my husband a Master Baker? Damm 😂😂😂

For those saying that master/slave terminology is common in tech

It used to be, but I think it's gradually tending to be replaced by other terminology - often more descriptive.

'Whitelist' and 'blacklist' work on the basis of white being good and black being bad. Alternatives such as 'allow list' and 'block list' or 'deny list' are clearer, less idiomatic - so there's no good reason not to adopt them.

'Master' otoh has many entirely appropriate uses entirely unrelated to slavery, for which there is no readily available better alternative.

In my area of law we used to have a black and white list (black list was the banned clauses). We changed it to " hardcore restrictions" which was always one of my jokes at courses... that we changed from the non PC black and white list and moved to a sexual reference in a sense instead.... always got people laughing and I have not been banned yet as a speaker.

I've thought for a long time we need to change the word "menstruate" - it should be womenstruate, surely.