I've had an anonymous text about my tenant

[ChristinaRussell]

Some background as it gives weight to the claims in the text:
A young couple have been renting a house from me for nearly a year (it's my only rental property and I'm kind of an accidental landlady). A couple of weeks ago the woman contacted me wanting her partner's name taken off the lease as they had split up and she really didn't like his behaviour - drinking too much, being argumentative, not paying his share etc. The rent has always been paid (on time) from her account and she has a steady job. They're currently both still living there but he is going to move out and she will renew the lease solely under her name as she really likes the house and wants to stay.

Anyway, this afternoon I receive an unsigned text complaining about the man's behaviour - he was seen urinating against the wall of the house, and he and his friends were allegedly being very rowdy and unpleasant. I don't like receiving anonymous messages on my personal number so I challenged them as to who they were but they refuse to say, just that they 'think I should know what's going on'. My suspicion is that it's the NDNs who we've never really got on with; not sure how they'd have my number but it's possible I gave them it years ago when we first bought the house. That's a side issue though. Had I not had the conversation with the female tenant earlier I probably would have dismissed it, but it does all fit. I've asked her (female tenant) for her partner's phone number so that I can berate him directly, and she's sent it. And now I don't know what to write to him! It pisses me off that he's abusing my property in this way but then again he's leaving in a couple of months anyway. And as a landlady I can't police his verbal or moral behaviour, can I?
(By the way, I haven't completely disregarded the thought that it might be the FT texting me anonymously from another phone in the hope that I'll evict him before the lease is up. She was pretty quick to respond and give me his phone number).
Should I say/do something? And if so, what?

It's very difficult to evict people, and as PPs have said, it takes a very long time to process especially at the moment.

I could probably threaten to start the proceedings but I wouldn't have thought his misbehaving in the street is grounds for eviction? And he is - supposedly - leaving anyway.

I am getting legal advice next week so hopefully things will become clearer.

I've had a couple more texts from Anonymous which make it clear that it's not the female tenant, and I get why they're not giving their name.

Anyway, I'm off to have a Saturday night!

I’d leave it.
Texting your tenant’s partner could invoke more trouble than you need.
As long as you have change of tenancy in writing then I’d leave well alone.

@Emeraldshamrock

Really, is that true in England? (I'm assuming you're there I agree very strange.

It's not strictly true - you are expected as the LL to take appropriate steps as ASB is usually a clause in the tenancy agreement. However, LLs have no enforcement powers (other than eviction) so in reality they would need to go to the council whose ASB team would deal with it.

I wouldn’t txt as you didn’t actually witness anything. At a push you could send a generic letter out address inappropriate behaviour has been noticed. Although I maybe would just let it go if he is going to be leaving.

How would some random have your phone number? If it's not your tenant it's someone she gave your number to.

I'll admit I don't know much about this kind of thing, so I might just be spouting rubbish here... but if they're renting together then I can't see how you should be expected to police their behaviour separately? As in, if I was damaging a property I was renting with my partner, and the landlord wasn't happy about it, we'd both be expected to leave! I appreciate you're trying to be kind to the FT as she wants this man to leave. But I'm also of the suspicion that she was the one who sent the anonymous message. She should really know that it's both of their responsibility to be acceptable tenants until he leaves, and she should be the one telling him to pack it in, not you?

As I said, I'm no expert on anything like this. I also have only browsed the full thread so apologies if I'm just parroting what's already been said many times!

@WhySoSexist

People saying that FT can end the tenancy without permission of MT are incorrect. That's only for periodic tenancies - this isn't a periodic tenancy, it's a fixed term tenancy. Fixed term tenancies require all parties to agree. So, if this tenancy ends on September 15th, then after September 15th it changes from being a fixed-term tenancy to being a periodic tenancy. On September 16th FT can end the tenancy without the permission of MT but on September 14th, she can't.

So what - the party who wants to leave needs to wait until the fixed term has expired and THEN serve notice to end the joint tenancy? That is bizarre.

@JuanNil

I'll admit I don't know much about this kind of thing, so I might just be spouting rubbish here... but if they're renting together then I can't see how you should be expected to police their behaviour separately? As in, if I was damaging a property I was renting with my partner, and the landlord wasn't happy about it, we'd both be expected to leave! I appreciate you're trying to be kind to the FT as she wants this man to leave. But I'm also of the suspicion that she was the one who sent the anonymous message. She should really know that it's both of their responsibility to be acceptable tenants until he leaves, and she should be the one telling him to pack it in, not you?

As I said, I'm no expert on anything like this. I also have only browsed the full thread so apologies if I'm just parroting what's already been said many times!

You're right. Each tenant is jointly responsible for all tenants so any breach of contract is borne by them all regardless of who is in the wrong.

Send a registered photocopy letter to advise of a report of ASB no need to threaten eviction though if you needed to evict in the future it could help your case.

@loveisagirlnameddaisy that's a relief! If I was absolutely certain that the FT had sent the anonymous message then in the OPs shoes I would definitely let her know that he is risking the tenancy for the both of them. However if there's any doubt, I don't think it's kind to worry her unnecessarily. It's a tricky one. I just don't think that OP should be too concerned with telling off MT and letting FT get away scot free. I think she needs to know that she has a responsibility to stop the behaviour too, at least so she's careful about who she invites to live with her next time. Hopefully I'm making sense. It's been a long day 😅

Having been an accidental LL, I cannot recommend the RLA more highly to ensure you can access all the expertise and advice to manage your property and ensuring you meet all of the legislation and best practice. Worth it's membership fee many times over.

www.rla.org.uk/

Why are you automatically believing every word the FT says OP? They may have separated after a spate of disagreements and he may have agreed to leave, and she maybe trying to get him gone sooner for her own benefit - he may be innocent in all this? Just a suggestion. In other words, stop getting involved and giving her advice like you did when you saw her last weekend - I'm sure if it was anything sinister, she wouldn't be telling her landlady all the details would she, that's just not the norm. The fact he's moving out is a positive sign for both of them that they are moving on. Enough of the mediator - just ask her to let you know when he's left and you can renew the contract, if she needs support ever, she can call police, women's aid, a friend, a neighbour etc.

@VenusTiger

Why are you automatically believing every word the FT says OP? They may have separated after a spate of disagreements and he may have agreed to leave, and she maybe trying to get him gone sooner for her own benefit - he may be innocent in all this? Just a suggestion. In other words, stop getting involved and giving her advice like you did when you saw her last weekend - I'm sure if it was anything sinister, she wouldn't be telling her landlady all the details would she, that's just not the norm. The fact he's moving out is a positive sign for both of them that they are moving on. Enough of the mediator - just ask her to let you know when he's left and you can renew the contract, if she needs support ever, she can call police, women's aid, a friend, a neighbour etc.

Yeah, you probably have a point, but I'm a nice person and she comes across well. Plus she is young enough to be my daughter so maybe that's why she feels able to chat to me about it? Dunno She initially brought it up with me because she wanted the lease changed, then when I popped in last weekend we talked about it in more detail. In retrospect it's probably inappropriate but I needed to know that she was ok letting things run until proper notices could be given ie not in personal danger. No, not technically my responsibility but if a young woman needs help and I can indirectly facilitate that help then why not?

It doesn't really matter who sent this text and for what reason. There is nothing the OP can do to help her tenant get her boyfriend to move out: she can't just evict him.

That was how I suspected you may have been feeling. It's not a bad thing that you're trying to protect her. If it turns out that she's being disingenuous then that's also not something to kick yourself over. You've already said you found yourself here accidentally, you're learning too. I think it might be worth reminding her that she needs to reign in his behaviour though. If you're worried she's in danger because of him then I think you need to discuss with her about calling the appropriate people, police, women's aid, etc. But as I mentioned before, she should also be learning, and a good thing for her to remember is that she can't share a tenancy with somebody and wipe her hands of all responsibility. If she stays there long term, it would be beneficial for both of you if she knew that she would be in equal trouble if her next housemate was trashing the place or causing disturbances.

[quote coronacockdown]Having been an accidental LL, I cannot recommend the RLA more highly to ensure you can access all the expertise and advice to manage your property and ensuring you meet all of the legislation and best practice. Worth it's membership fee many times over.

www.rla.org.uk/[/quote]
FYI, they are now the NRLA, having merged with the NLA.

So many bits to this....
Have you spoken to the male tenant about leaving? Does he say he's going or is the FT the only one saying this?
Are you sure the FT can afford the house on her own? It maybe that the rent comes from her but he could be paying all the utilities, council tax etc?
If you have fb search the phone number on there. It does work sometimes.

If he is on the tenancy agreement why do you not have his number & details anyway - for him to be jointly responsible you should have completed checks on him also.
Don’t you have to give longer notice at the moment with Corona? I know you did initially but none of my tenants are leaving at the moment- please check as you could end up with problems if you don’t follow correct procedure.
How are you going to work it - will you not have to give her notice as well Return the deposit (As its joint) & then complete a new agreement & take a new deposit?

@UggyPow I'm going to check up on the legal situation on Monday. I'm pretty sure I will have to return the deposit and start afresh.

I did do checks on him also but I know he is self-employed so I've always reckoned that the main financial responsibility fell on her. She says one of the reasons she's fed up with him is that she was always having to chase him for his share and she usually ended up paying it all. She is in a key-worker industry so has been working throughout lockdown. I imagine he has been doing very little which may account for the bad behaviour (a reason, not an excuse).

I do have his details but I wasn't sure whether it was appropriate for me to 'chastise' him for his behaviour as it seemed to me to be a personal issue between him and his GF?

Self employed doesn’t always mean “doesn’t earn enough to pay the rent” My industry has been doing very little during lockdown and I am not spending it drunk and pissing outside my house, so I really don’t think we can necessarily correlate the two!

However, I am glad you’ve got legal advice on Monday. There are many knowledgable people on this thread - I’ve learnt loads (not that I’m a LL but it’s definitely good to know!)

I would say no to chastising him as you don't have any proof other than an anon text, and as PP have said - if people have issues regarding public disorder they should take it up with the non emergency police, not you. I think you’d be getting yourself too involved and possibly complicating things.

@WhySoSexist

People saying that FT can end the tenancy without permission of MT are incorrect. That's only for periodic tenancies - this isn't a periodic tenancy, it's a fixed term tenancy. Fixed term tenancies require all parties to agree. So, if this tenancy ends on September 15th, then after September 15th it changes from being a fixed-term tenancy to being a periodic tenancy. On September 16th FT can end the tenancy without the permission of MT but on September 14th, she can't.

Yes, that's why I said:

The quickest way to get him out would be for her to give you notice to quit. She can do this unilaterally and it will end the tenancy for both of them. She can't do this until after the fixed period expires. She needs to give 4 weeks or longer if the tenancy agreement says so.

This would still be quicker than OP serving notice on them.

FT would also need to make sure she gave the correct amount of notice, in writing, ending on the right day. Otherwise MT could say it was invalid.

england.shelter.org.uk/housing_advice/private_renting/ending_a_periodic_tenancy

Why don't you just block the number? You have decided your course of action.

I think you are being a bit unfair to your other tenant. You only have FT opinion on any of this, do you even know for certain that he knows that the tenancy won't be renewed in his name too? He could be about to be shafted here.

I knew a now ex friend whose not so dp did similar to her, she was in great shock when he casually informed her that she had to leave in a week and he was moving his new woman in.

I am suspicious the message came from one of her friends. Is she the same age range as FT?

You definitely need more advice about these situations. I'd be tempted if she had fb you check out her friendslist or to ask the texter who they are.

It could be MT is a pita and fully on board, she could be manipulating in desperation or just not be that pleasant when you actually know her. I'd want to know especially as if it's the latter I'd want her out too.

@User8008135

I think you are being a bit unfair to your other tenant. You only have FT opinion on any of this, do you even know for certain that he knows that the tenancy won't be renewed in his name too? He could be about to be shafted here.

I knew a now ex friend whose not so dp did similar to her, she was in great shock when he casually informed her that she had to leave in a week and he was moving his new woman in.

I am suspicious the message came from one of her friends. Is she the same age range as FT?

You definitely need more advice about these situations. I'd be tempted if she had fb you check out her friendslist or to ask the texter who they are.

It could be MT is a pita and fully on board, she could be manipulating in desperation or just not be that pleasant when you actually know her. I'd want to know especially as if it's the latter I'd want her out too.

Ultimately, none of it matters. I LLs are not relationship counselllors and once the fixed period is up, the FT has the legal right to end the tenancy on behalf of all parties.

However, if I were the LL, I'd contact the MT to check he was in agreement with moving out.

@ladypete I'm self-employed myself and I agree but it does mean that finances can be precarious, and what he is SE in isn't necessarily stable.