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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

References are pointless and a waste of everyone's time

45 replies

UltimateWednesday · 04/07/2020 08:29

And yet everyone still asks for them.

I work in school and they are given great weight for safeguarding, to confirm employment history, although the content with regard to ability to do the role is less important.

My head takes great care in writing them and is very good at writing a truthful but glowing reference for everyone, she will always find something good to say.

A colleague has recently applied for a job, not in school, elsewhere. Head wrote the reference (which I haven't seen but don't doubt was good) but colleague has been told her application won't proceed becuse of unsatisfactory references. She is fuming.

I am certain the only negative thing in the reference will be her sickness absence record, which is high, but she insists that can't possibly be the reason, head doesn't want her to leave.

Now, when she's in she does a decent enough job, but can be hard work to manage with these kinds of outbursts. Her absence record is an issue. Head wouldn't take action to "get rid" but certainly wouldn't be devastated if she left.

Prospective employer won't tell her exactly what the issue was. Head has shown her what was sent, colleague insists head must by lying and actually sent something else.

All this fuss over something that's pointless anyway.

OP posts:
SamSeabornforPresident · 04/07/2020 08:31

I thought the 'personal' bit of the reference wasn't taken into account any more and the absence bit was the only bit they looked at? I'd be disinclined to hire someone who was off sick a lot.

darkcaramel · 04/07/2020 08:32

What I really hate about school references is the fact that you need a reference from your last head to get another position, but said head is under no obligation to provide one.

dontlikebeards · 04/07/2020 08:33

High sickness would be a huge issue for me.

PlanDeRaccordement · 04/07/2020 08:33

Doubt that was only reference she had. If it was then she will not have been hired because of only having one reference when most places you need at least two.

AmandaHoldensLips · 04/07/2020 08:34

References requests are now pretty specific about punctuality, time-keeping, sickness absence etc. An employer is now allowed to give a "bad" reference (like saying useless lazy difficult). So it would definitely have been one of the specific questions.

AgentProvocateur · 04/07/2020 08:34

They’re not pointless. I wouldn’t employ someone with a poor sickness record either.

Cactuar · 04/07/2020 08:35

Surely your colleague can ask for a copy of her reference from the people she applied to under GDPR rules.

AmandaHoldensLips · 04/07/2020 08:35

NOT allowed !

GreekOddess · 04/07/2020 08:36

In the private sector the majority of references just confirm dates of employment and job title so you have no idea whether they were actually any good at their or had a high sickness record. Recruitment is a leap of faith.

topcat2014 · 04/07/2020 08:37

NoNo-one in the private sector would disclose anything apart from dates and title.

Head was naive to do that, or deliberate

Murraygoldberg · 04/07/2020 08:38

I agree to an extent, the last reference I wrote ( v average but truthful) resulted in the person not getting the job who then complained and it went to the law department, dept were fine with the reference. In future I'll only agree to give reference if I can honestly give a v good reference

SinkGirl · 04/07/2020 08:38

Now, when she's in she does a decent enough job, but can be hard work to manage with these kinds of outbursts. Her absence record is an issue. Head wouldn't take action to "get rid" but certainly wouldn't be devastated if she left.

What do you mean by “outbursts”?

Does she have a disability? And I don’t mean do you consider her to be disabled, I mean does she meet the definition in the Equality Act?

Several years ago I know the law was that disability-related absences had to be excluded from references. Not sure if that’s still the case, but if it is it may not be the issue because they may not be aware of it.

UltimateWednesday · 04/07/2020 08:41

No, no disability, she's just very opinionated and demanding.

OP posts:
StudyBuddy · 04/07/2020 08:44

Your post is a bit confusing. You say you think references are pointless and then you immediately outline the exact benefit of references - i.e. that you're able to know in advance when you've agreed to hire someone who hasn't told you the full story and would end up costing you a bunch of money to not do the job.

user1486915549 · 04/07/2020 08:47

Why on earth does your friend think that her high sickness absence record is not an issue ??

TooTrueToBeGood · 04/07/2020 08:49

It sounds like the reference was far from pointless. Why would anyone want to take on an employee who has a poor sickness record and is hard to manage? The point of the reference system is to help employers in their suitability assessment of candidates. In this case it would appear to have worked as intended.

Digestive28 · 04/07/2020 08:51

My guess is the reference wasn’t as good as she thinks it was. Often as well, if a bad reference may follow up with a phone call to get more details so the ‘she’s hard work’ part May have been mentioned

Jeezoh · 04/07/2020 08:51

I don’t follow your logic about references being pointless - in the example you give a reference has given a prospective employer information to help them make an informed decision about a potential risk when hiring someone!

DarklyDreamingDexter · 04/07/2020 08:54

It will be the sickness record for sure. A former colleague of mine got another job and it was then rescinded because of her sickness record, which was pretty bad. She ranted and raved at our line manager and the HR manager, who sat in the same office as me so I overheard everything. They simply stated that they were asked to say how many sick days she’d had off and they told them. It was nothing personal, just a statement of truth.

LimeHookSinker · 04/07/2020 08:57

This isn’t actually about references, is it? It’s actually just an sly dig at your colleague who you don’t really like.

welcometohell · 04/07/2020 08:59

References are absolutely not "pointless".
I also work in a school and recently came very close to recruiting someone who performed brilliantly at interview, but the reference from their last employer was very concerning. Some people can be very plausible on first impression.

DarklyDreamingDexter · 04/07/2020 08:59

Forgot to add, references are not pointless. If they highlight an issue like a poor sickness record, they are very valuable to the new employer who won’t take a risk on someone with a bad sickness record for no good or apparent reason.

InFiveMins · 04/07/2020 09:01

It'll be sickness record for sure. Not many will want to employ someone with a high sickness record.

Mumdiva99 · 04/07/2020 09:02

As someone who is involved in employing within a school i can tell you they are very valid. A good HT knows how to word a reference to let the prospective employer know how good that employee is. Sometimes it's by what isn't said or the wording.

AriettyHomily · 04/07/2020 09:06

School is clearly different in the private sector references don't count for much anymore, number of years employed, you can't say anything bad or good because it could be discriminatory. They are filled in by HR who usually have never met the person in question.

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