References are pointless and a waste of everyone's time

[UltimateWednesday]

And yet everyone still asks for them.

I work in school and they are given great weight for safeguarding, to confirm employment history, although the content with regard to ability to do the role is less important.

My head takes great care in writing them and is very good at writing a truthful but glowing reference for everyone, she will always find something good to say.

A colleague has recently applied for a job, not in school, elsewhere. Head wrote the reference (which I haven't seen but don't doubt was good) but colleague has been told her application won't proceed becuse of unsatisfactory references. She is fuming.

I am certain the only negative thing in the reference will be her sickness absence record, which is high, but she insists that can't possibly be the reason, head doesn't want her to leave.

Now, when she's in she does a decent enough job, but can be hard work to manage with these kinds of outbursts. Her absence record is an issue. Head wouldn't take action to "get rid" but certainly wouldn't be devastated if she left.

Prospective employer won't tell her exactly what the issue was. Head has shown her what was sent, colleague insists head must by lying and actually sent something else.

All this fuss over something that's pointless anyway.

I think they are far better these days now that so many employers will only provide dates. Years ago I worked for a huge company that had a 'no references' policy and would only provide the start date and end date of employment. It made it incredibly difficult to move to another job as I was unable to provide references. Although, what do you know, the company wouldn't themselves accept a dates of employment reference from anyone who wanted to work for them.

Now that it's acceptable to just give dates it is far more fair all around.

If she has a high sickness record that will be the exact reason she hasn’t got the job, and will struggle to get any other job.

Nobody wants to hire someone with an unreliable past.

Why is she a teacher if she takes a lot of sick leave? I mean if there's one profession where they really hate that, it's a teacher.

Think she needs a different career. She can't have loads of time off and loads of sick leave. What are they paying her for then? Although really, she needs to accept that in any job, high sick leave will count against her. Doubt she will though, sounds entitled.

......., head doesn't want her to leave.

Head wouldn't take action to "get rid" but certainly wouldn't be devastated if she left

Eh? Which is it? This doesn't make any sense.

The sickness record will be the reason. The head has to be honest about absence.

I work in an industry where references are important. Only so far as if someone credible in the sector is willing to reference you, have a conversation with an future employer then that shows that you are a good egg.

Sickness record is very formal, however I didn’t disclose sickness days for pregnancy loses/surgery related to after deciding to stop TTC, as it didn’t seem relevant. It never got challenged.

Longevity in a role, at least two years, ideally 3 stands out to me in a candidate.

Eh? Which is it? This doesn't make any sense.

I took it to mean that the person who is trying to leave thinks that the head doesn't want her to leave.

Going off on a tangent, slightly. I worked for 10yrs at a company that refused to give references (and has long since disappeared). I left to relocate and have children and now years later, I'm back looking for a job with no employment references. If we need references, then companies should be have to give them.

In the private sector references now only confirm your job title and the dates that you worked there.

This is because any negative reference could potentially open the employer up to legal action for libel if it can be proved to be incorrect.

Sickness records aren't shared because it opens people up to discrimination on the basis of a disability.

So if, for example, her sickness is due to a mental health condition it would be against the Equality Act to use that as a reason not to employ her.

If your number of absences due to sickness are higher than the amount permitted under the new company's absence policy then an offer of employment wont be made or an offer previously made can be retracted on reciept of the reference.

My job requires security clearance. This was gained by checking my employment dates with HRMC for the past 5 years and having a friend do a character reference. No actual employment references. I know they do other checks on databases etc but no references.

Developed vetting does actually involve interviews with your references though!

Definitely absences. No school wants to risk that. Supply teachers are very expensive and it's not a job where you can catch up on work.

The sickness absence is interesting. I wouldn’t expect to be penalised for time off due to broken bones / surgery / cancer / Covid19 etc.

I thought references were.purely attendance, ti.ekeeping etc. Her bad sickness record is why she didn't get the job.

@wheresmymojo, not all private sector references are just dates and job title. And it’s perfectly permissible to give a bad reference, as long as it can be proved to be accurate. In reality, poor references are usually accompanied by a ‘please feel free to call me if you wish to discuss further’ email, IYSWIM.

But most employers are thrilled to get rid of duffers, surely?

I find references are just tick boxes now aren’t they?

I find it depends on industry... some positions they only want a few sentences. Hirers in other industries will carefully read every word of a 1000 word commentary.

As a counterpoint, there are bad employers out there. Why should they be allowed to punish someone by buggering up future prospects ?