To feel that confident, outgoing people get everything in life?

[RosesEverywhere]

Obviously they don't get everything, but AIBU for thinking that being confident and outgoing makes life so much easier?

Last night I was thinking back to last year at university. For one of our modules we were put into small groups and had to do a presentation for a local company. My group were quite difficult to work with - one refused to do any work until the night before the deadline and one only contributed plagiarised content which luckily I spotted and rewrote. The other two did contribute what had been delegated to them to be fair to them. However I did the bulk of the work. I was the group leader and organised all of the group meetings (some meetings I was the only one of the group to show up). The premise behind the report was my idea and all the evidence and justification of the idea was mine. I did the work that had been delegated to the one who refused to do any work and the one who plagiarised content as well as my own work. This meant I stayed up for several nights until the early hours of the morning. I then basically rewrote the entire report using the work that had been contributed by the two who did contribute but by the end of it I had basically written nearly the entire report (using my group member's research, so they did contribute that).

We presented our report to the group. We each had an equal amount of speaking in the presentation. However two group members are very confident, natural speakers and they spoke really well. I am an ok public speaker, I don't really get nervous but I am not charismatic and confident like they are.

We got our grade back and got 90% and really positive feedback. The bulk of the grade was weighted on the report. Our feedback wrote that our report was the best one they had read since they started this module paired with the local business. I was really proud and happy. However I later found out that the two 'confident' ones had been approached and offered jobs for when they graduate. I am going to be honest it stung, especially when one of those was one who had contributed maybe a handful of sentences to the final report at 3am the night before it was due. I am not bitter about it but it does sting a little. I have no ill feelings towards the two that got offered jobs as they later went on to become really good friends of mine. I just feel like I am overlooked quite a lot because I am not as confident as others.

I think the reason I am suddenly thinking of this now is I am at the beginning of my career about to start applications for a competitive career and I know this kind of thing will happen over and over again for me.

It won't happen again because you will not allow yourself to be put in the position of doing all the work for others

I couldn't work up the courage to ask anyone else and the lecturer said I was not allowed to do it by myself. So I didn't do the assignment and got zero!

This level of reticence - to the point where it prevented you from undertaking a required assignment - would be problematic in a lot of workplaces, so you can see why a certain level of confidence is a desirable quality for lots of employers. It’s a skill really worth investing in developing.

@sst1234

Confidence opens door, competence retains credibility. Being confident will likely get you the job ahead of someone who isn’t confident. But once in that job, bullshitters get found out fairly quickly.

Very very true.

The way to become master of the universe is to be both confident and competent.

Competency comes through doing stuff. You use your ability to project confidence to get yourself into a role where you do stuff and learn from it. Projecting confidence unlocks the fast track to growing in competency.

In your uni project you stayed in your comfort zone. That's not how you grow. The others got practice at being like a senior manager, presenting the work of their juniors to best effect to get the outcome desired. It was more joint effort to get that grade than I think you appreciate.

If you want top jobs you have to put yourself outside your comfort zone learning to do the things top people do, like asking for budget when there is no money, giving bad news, bigging up your team, talking to groups of people at short notice, negotiating, accepting an award, etc.

Nobody plops out of the womb being good at those things. They are learned. You have to drop the fear of failure and get stuck in. You learn by failing. If you aren't failing often enough then you aren't trying anything hard enough, which means you aren't learning fast enough: you are keeping yourself in the slow lane.

I find it interesting that on Mumsnet everybody seems to be in a senior managerial job with lots of confidence. When in reality, the average salary is around 25k, one in five people earn around the minimum wage and most people work in fairly standard jobs such as office admin, retail or healthcare.

I’ve found myself a happy niche in the civil service at an HEO level. Whilst I’m happy to move around interesting jobs at this level and maybe go to to a SEO job, I’m not particularly ambitious and don’t want the stress of a senior management job. I’m content not being the most confident person, nor do I want to do presentations!

If someone is asking about how to be successful in business then surely the more successful people will post and others will not?

Many more people lurk than post.

Yes, I agree that confident and outgoing people are generally more successful.

It stands to reason that a certain % of them must have real talent to back it up, but the ones who don't are able to charm and bamboozle stupid people who can't see past the veneer.

Since the advent of sales, advertising and marketing, charisma and charm has become a valuable commodity in itself, even if not backed up with intelligence, ability and other desirable qualities.

Unless that company was specifically looking for outgoing public-speakers without work ethic or integrity, they've been sold a pup and will find that out soon enough.

Public speaking and presentation are skills that can be taught and learned.
So are interview skills ( both sides ).

What's for sure Roses is that you clearly are a hard and capable worker. Once you believe this and have mastered genuine confidence in yourself and your abilities, you will fly!

It sounds really frustrating OP, but it sounds like you've taken some feedback on board which might be super helpful.

From my experience as an employer, it's incredibly hard to judge competency from an interview. Sure, you can ask the right questions and get the right answers - but you might be meeting multiple candidates who have the same right answers.

In this scenario, the candidate who communicated the most effectively will win (even if they are not necessarily the most competent in the long run) because every business values this skill.

As others have said, when it comes to climbing the career ladder, a proven track record is key, so although confidence remains importance, they also need the goods to back it up. It just sucks when you're trying to get on to that first rung.

@TorkTorkBam

In your uni project you stayed in your comfort zone. That's not how you grow. The others got practice at being like a senior manager, presenting the work of their juniors to best effect to get the outcome desired. It was more joint effort to get that grade than I think you appreciate.

If you want top jobs you have to put yourself outside your comfort zone learning to do the things top people do, like asking for budget when there is no money, giving bad news, bigging up your team, talking to groups of people at short notice, negotiating, accepting an award, etc.

Nobody plops out of the womb being good at those things. They are learned. You have to drop the fear of failure and get stuck in. You learn by failing. If you aren't failing often enough then you aren't trying anything hard enough, which means you aren't learning fast enough: you are keeping yourself in the slow lane.

I did try really hard. I think it was the best presentation I had ever given at that point. It was definitely out of my comfort zone. I felt relaxed and explained my slides well (IMO). I think when we were presenting we were all pretty equal but during the question portion they were joking around and more relaxed when answering. I should add that they were the only two to get job offers out of the whole year group so I think they just happen to be exceptionally good at presenting themselves.

It was definitely a really useful experience to watch them in action though. I have definitely learnt a lot about confidence from this experience, now I just need to put it into practice.

Thank you again for all of the helpful replies, particularly from employers. I would love to know what kind of traits or behaviours give the impression of confidence in interviews and presentations. I know the basics like making good eye contact and speaking clearly, but evidently there is a lot that I don't know. I know "fake it 'til you make it" is a good approach but I just don't know how to 'fake it'.

oh I don't know. I'm senior now and fairly old and do lots of recruitment, and am definitely will look behind a loud (or quiet) exterior.

That said confidence is different to extroversion. You can be quiet yet still confident. While if i am recruiting someone at the start of their career, I may give them a chance, later on, I do want to see a level of self confidence.

SeagoingSexpot I was proved right because, trust to form, she was rubbish at the job.
The cycle continued - breeze through interview, get job, useless at job, given excellent references to get rid of, interview for new job......
This person is the worst teacher any of us has ever come across but is well on the way to being HT.

This is why a lot of people try very hard to appear confident. It is a skill that can be learnt. A lot of people who appear confident arent, or didnt start out as being confident

Ha. Yes.

If you met me at work you’d think I was calm, confident, professional, expert in handling a crisis. (Actual feedback on several occasions) What you wouldn’t know is the amount of time I’m mentally screaming FUUUUCCCCKKKKK!! or hyperventilating in the bogs before coming back out with a winning smile.

I find it interesting that on Mumsnet everybody seems to be in a senior managerial job with lots of confidence. When in reality, the average salary is around 25k, one in five people earn around the minimum wage and most people work in fairly standard jobs such as office admin, retail or healthcare.

All jobs, from minimum wage upwards can be done with confidence and competence. Lots of fairly low paid jobs still have responsibility and management skills involved, not just CEO's. Pretty much every job requires communication at some level or other too, and one of my earliest jobs was one of the most stressful, with presentations at all levels, but it was an excellent learning experience.

Logically confidence should come along with competence. If someone is good at their job, I would expect them to have a certain level of confidence in themselves. If someone comes across as anxious it makes you doubt their abilities.

I have learned the hard way to present myself confidentally, I have been overlooked quite a bit due to more what I would describe as arrogant men. In my eyes practice makes confidence, talk to everyone you can. Make small talk with strangers, put yourself in uncomfortable situations, obviously not just randomers in the street but at the checkout, at the bar, with waitresses, bus drivers etc.

I think also you just need to learn not to care what others think.

Retail, office admin and healthcare still require confidence and competence?

Someone outgoing and confident is still going to get a job in retail over someone whos not.

May I ask the question. Where the two that were hired men?

waits to get slated...

Were, even

@LemonadeFromLemons No, they were both women.

@RosesEverywhere

Fair enough. I’ll get back in my box.

For what it’s worth I’m sorry you didn’t get offered a position having done all of the hidden work. I can empathise with not being a charismatic speaker. My field is very technical and thankfully I deal with people mostly on a one to one basis.

I am aware the following doesn’t apply to your previous situation but expressed fears this may be an ongoing issue for you. I’ve found that keeping a work log that you can pull out for one to ones helps to make your hard work visible to your line manager. It also gives you an opportunity to highlight how much value you add to the company. It sounds like you are a hard worker who is sure to add value :)