To hope schools scrap uniforms

[greengoldfish]

It can’t surely be possible to wash blazers and heavy kilt like skirts on a daily basis.

AIBU to hope this means an end to uniform, or if not, a return to some comfy jogging bottoms, polo shirts and cardis/jumpers?

My daughters school has already said they expect pupils to be in uniform come September.

A uniform looks smarter

Most of them look hideous in fairness

In work places your expected to wear a uniform depending on your job role

This is not true of many well paid professions and the trend towards casualisation in the workplace is very marked. Have you ever met a software developer? Designer? How bizarre to completely overdress children in comparison to workplace standards.

When taking kids on school trips they are reasons why children are expected to be in uniform.

Other countries manage perfectly well. What about nurseries, hobby groups, all take children out without incident. That’s not the strongest argument, now is it?

I've taken plenty of children not wearing uniform on school trips and their behaviour has been just fine. As I would expect. Unacceptable clothing eg visible underwear,spaghetti straps is made clear beforehand.
And I haven't lost anyone either.

Redroses of course it is to do with being British! I realise there are many countries (many former British colonies among them) where uniform is the norm, but in Western Europe, uniform is not the norm - and children in those countries thrive. The worship of the uniform really is a British trait. I haven't encountered it elsewhere.

None of the reasons for uniform are particularly valid - it's a cultural construct. I've adapted to that. I'm not pushing my views onto anyone, I am expressing my opinion. My DDs have been through the British school system and have always worn uniform - and have never been pulled up on infringements because I chose to live here and raise them here. That doesn't mean I have to like uniform or think it's a good idea. I see my DDs' peers absolutely blossom in 6th form where they are allowed to wear their own clothes, be their own selves and take responsibility for their learning. Kids in other countries are able to do that from a much younger age.

Your opinion is as valid as mine. At least you don't state opinion as fact, as Fishy does - I'm still waiting on the research evidence proving that uniform improves academic achievement.

@LaurieMarlow

A uniform looks smarter

Most of them look hideous in fairness

In work places your expected to wear a uniform depending on your job role

This is not true of many well paid professions and the trend towards casualisation in the workplace is very marked. Have you ever met a software developer? Designer? How bizarre to completely overdress children in comparison to workplace standards.

When taking kids on school trips they are reasons why children are expected to be in uniform.

Other countries manage perfectly well. What about nurseries, hobby groups, all take children out without incident. That’s not the strongest argument, now is it?

Nursery children are a lot less likely to get lost. I would t expect nursery children to be any kind of uniform. I’m not here to argue with you, this is an open thread not a colouring competition. If other Countries are doing so fabulous why don’t you go and live their.

If other Countries are doing so fabulous why don’t you go and live their.

I do

It’s ‘there’ btw.

I really think state schools should be banned from having blazers, ties and expensive logoed things in the uniform. It should either be generic supermarket school clothes, or the type of uniform that most retail staff wear - polo shirts, hoodies, etc, if they insist on having school colours. These clothes can all be washed and dried quickly and easily.
I'd ban non uniform days as well, to avoid stress on poorer students. Find some other ways of fundraising.

@pointythings you are trying to push your views onto me. Because we have a difference of opinion and you don’t agree with mine. That is exactly what you are doing it’s not a brutish obsession we have no choice in the matter either way.

Did I chastise you because you don’t like the school uniform? I think it’s you who seems to be doing that here.

@LaurieMarlow

If other Countries are doing so fabulous why don’t you go and live their.

I do

It’s ‘there’ btw.

Thanks. I’m not too ignorant to take on others opinions.

Gosh you’re very defensive rose

People are allowed to disagree with you.

@FishyDuck

I think it is certainly instructive that the vast majority of top private schools all have very smart uniforms. They understand the high standards that uniforms help to encourage.

On the other hand, what percentage of schools rated inadequate by OFSTED have polo shirt 'uniforms'? They go alongside low standards and bad behaviour.

Well St Paul's Girls has no uniform and is one of the top performing schools....

Finland has better results than UK, and no uniform...

@Redroses05

Didn’t say you did. Please point out where I did. I also remember what schooling was like and as I’ve mentioned before I was a bullied child in and out of a uniform so uniforms didn’t prevent anything. Bullies picked on my physical attributes instead which was so much better than my clothing 🙄. Bullies will use whatever they can against you and a uniform is not going to deter them. Teachers putting a stop to it and looking into these bullies would do way better.

Many people do not wear uniforms. College/uni students don’t wear uniforms, many retail workers don’t wear uniforms, office workers don’t wear uniforms, teachers don’t wear uniforms, etc, yet they manage to make it out the door and look respectable. If children in countries that don’t have uniforms can pick out their own clothes for school, follow a dress code, and still have a successful school life, why would it be difficult for British children to do the same? It’s not like they won’t need to learn and know how to dress for interviews and entering the workforce.

@fishyduck ah yes, of course, because if the kids swapped from polo shirt to a proper shirt, they'd magically be "outstanding" ...

@pointythings you are trying to push your views onto me. Because we have a difference of opinion and you don’t agree with mine

Ah, you're an alumna of the Donald Trump school of Free Speech!

I'm allowed to have a different opinion to yours but I'm not allowed to post it on this thread. I get it now. Hilarious.

The 'if other countries are so much better, why don't you go and live there' argument tells me a lot about the kind of person you are...

So you agree that it's OK for nursery age kids to go on trips without a uniform because they won't get lost, but not for older ones? Let's have all the reports of children lost on school trips from non-uniform countries in the age range of 5 - 18 then.

@LaurieMarlow I didn’t have a problem with you wanting children wanting to wear non uniform to school however there’s disagreeing and being a goady cow which is what you and some other posters are doing. It’s not a strong argument for some due to you wanting to dismiss every point different to your own that is raised. You clearly think you know all and that’s fine. I let you have the last reply

RedRoses now you're just being rude. Name calling? Really?

My children's school have not required uniform for the 3 half days that my year 12 has been offered this term, but there has been a dress code. Since he doesn't have any clothes that could remotely be considered "smart" I had to buy a new outfit for these 3 days. He will be wearing exactly the same thing an all 3 days whether anyone likes it or not. I hope they don't maintain this stance in September as it will be expensive. One of my boys lives in hoodies and joggers and the other spends most of his free time in sports kit . Neither of them has anything remotely resembling "smart casual" or "office wear". They never go anywhere that requires it. Oh I tell a lie, they both have one smarter shirt for if we go out for a meal somewhere a bit posher than the pub but that's it.
If non uniform really means non uniform then fine, but if it means "buy a load of clothes that your kids still won't want to wear outside of school" I will be pretty pissed off. Especially if uniform then returns later.

Apparently some pupils not only love their uniform but are pretty articulate about why.

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/pupils-long-to-keep-old-fashioned-skirts-c885c2wsw

How is arguing against your points being goady, red?

It’s not a strong argument for some due to you wanting to dismiss every point different to your own that is raised

It is fair enough, and quite important, to challenge things presented as fact when there is no evidence or evidence to the contrary (‘uniforms increase academic performance’). And discussions are usually based on presenting alternatives to opinion, or offering different experiences.

I am anti uniform but fully hear that some have been bullied due to clothing. Others have offered an alternative experience and view on the bullying issue.

That’s how discussion works. It is fair enough to be asked to explain the logic in needing to prepare children for the workplace by putting them in uniform.

As it is because if the English (not so much in Scotland I think) obsession with uniform it is a minority of parents that have any experience if non-uniform schools. And a mufti day doesn’t count: a mufti day in a strict uniform school is like Christmas dinner served in a year of pasta. You just can’t translate the experience to everyday year round.

I wonder whether the obsession with uniform and the need for levelling etc compared to mainland Europe and Scandinavia is down to the stranglehold that class continues to have on our society?

ComeBy I think you've hit the nail on the head with your point about class. WW2 destroyed the remnants of the class system in most European countries; that was a tiny silver lining amongst all the horror. The other thing to point out is that the UK is among the most unequal countries in Western Europe in terms of the rich/poor divide and uniform is a (mostly failed) attempt to make those differences within a school less visible. Tackle inequality and you'll be getting somewhere - but that would mean root and branch reform of economic and political systems in the UK. Given the current direction of travel, that won't be happening any time soon.

Those girls at Rugby 'love' their skirts because they are so unusual. Makes them look different,not the same as other schools. I also suspect it may discourage unhelpful remarks from some boys.
I don't buy the 'wearing pyjamas' bit unless the school hasn't updated its heating since Dr Arnold's day.

campion Rugby is also not very representative of the typical demographic in UK schools.

I wonder whether the obsession with uniform and the need for levelling etc compared to mainland Europe and Scandinavia is down to the stranglehold that class continues to have on our society?
Is there really an obsession? There's a couple.of voices on this thread who have stated categorically that uniform = better attainment but more who have argued against uniform. Then there's me who just prefers it, and did when so was at school. Not for any reason other than convenience. My guess would be that for most people it is that too and not that many actually passionately care about it or think it raises standards etc.

Both my children are now back at school, and whilst the ask is that children are showered and changed after returning from school, I very much doubt this is being monitored - how could they? I am in the position where I have five shirts but only three cardigans and skits. Both have to be branded (so expensive with logo) and I have to say they're not fairing well with the quick wash/dry turnaround, and the cardigans won't last if people only have maybe one or two and therefore have to wash them daily.