To hope schools scrap uniforms

[greengoldfish]

It can’t surely be possible to wash blazers and heavy kilt like skirts on a daily basis.

AIBU to hope this means an end to uniform, or if not, a return to some comfy jogging bottoms, polo shirts and cardis/jumpers?

I take it that you don't work in IT??

Or a creative industry.

The most successful art director I know is famous for wearing a rather grubby pair of jogging bottoms day in day out. It hasn’t held him back.

Hehe.

Plus there are currently large swathes of professionals working in their pants from home, and are likely to be for some time yet. Frankly, joggers and polo shirts is a fairly aspirational getup during lockdown. If you're on a zoom meeting with 10 others, probably 5 of them won't even be wearing trousers.

It's don't mind uniform, especially the polo shirt & pullover combo with grey/black/blue trousers/skirt/ shorts a lot of primary schools go for. It's warm & practical. I do disagree with the ultra strict shirt, tie & blazer approach (along with skirt & trousers that must have a school emblem) of secondary schools. It's a huge expense no matter your household income.

I have a dc in Reception & they've retuned with no uniform for this half term, he's gone back in what I'd call 'nursery clothes' items I don't mind getting destroyed. They're in forest school & doing pe most days. It works well, they said clean clothes every day when we returned but no need to wash what clothes worn that day straight away.

My understanding of the guidance from September is return to normal school dress & no extra washing needs to take place. It will make life easier for me with washing (4x children in the school) as most of the uniform still fits them I don't but all new each August though, except polo shirts & usually shoes. We just buy as they need it throughout the year.

@DappledThings

Then I changed to a new school for 6th form which had no uniform and we had regular conversations wishing there was one because it would be so much easier

So you’d rather someone else made your clothing choice for you? Are you incapable of selecting the correct clothes for the weather/activity?
Absolutely at 16/17 I would have been happier in a uniform so I didn't have to make a choice. It got easier as I got older. Nothing to do with weather appropriateness but to do with having a vague idea of what might suit me or what was even the tiniest bit cool.

It literally didn't occur to me to worry about what to wear at 6th form, or moan in that we should have a uniform.

The majority of people should be able to choose clothes by the time they're 16 years old ...

I'm fairly certain that if you had a job at 16 ..let's say you did a paper round or helped on a market stall or helped at a stables or whatever.. would you REALLY expect to be told what to wear? And think it too difficult to decide??

I had an interview at 16... On the day I had inductions at 6th form... And had no opportunity to change between. So needed to wear something appropriate for both situations.... I didn't need the school or the shop or my mum to tell me what to wear :/

I'm fairly certain that if you had a job at 16 ..let's say you did a paper round or helped on a market stall or helped at a stables or whatever.. would you REALLY expect to be told what to wear? And think it too difficult to decide??

I did, I worked in the now defunct herbs, nuts and snacks store Julian Graves on a Saturday! I would have been happy to wear a uniform if they had one but they didnt. As it was I had a limited number of clothes options to spread over 7 days. Having only 2 days to spread then over and a nice uniform for school would have been preferable to me.

Obviously I could and did choose clothes. Not having to have done so would have been easier and one chore fewer for me.

Pre-Covid I was going in to the office 3 days a week. I pretty much had a uniform there as I wore one pair of black trousers and a selection of basic tops. There are 5 of us in our 40s in the management team. 3 of us have joked more than once over the years about how much easier it would be if a uniform were introduced. I'd be fine with that! Another friend of mine who is a senior pharmacist in a hospital was delighted a few years ago when uniforms were introduced for them.

I think it is certainly instructive that the vast majority of top private schools all have very smart uniforms. They understand the high standards that uniforms help to encourage.

On the other hand, what percentage of schools rated inadequate by OFSTED have polo shirt 'uniforms'? They go alongside low standards and bad behaviour.

I don’t think fishy understands the difference between correlation and causation.

In any case, where I am, private schools are less likely to have uniform than state schools.

Laurie the Netherlands have virtually no private schools. The King's kids go to state school - admittedly in a posh catchment, but a state school nevertheless. And guess what? They don't wear uniform. The world over there are hugely successful people in law, finance and other professions who have grown up not wearing a uniform to school.

Fishy's posts are comedy gold though.

I want an end to the ridiculously price hiked logo only and custom colours/tartans/patterns lark that's becoming more and more prevalent as academies seek to improve standards via the medium of garishly coloured polyester.

No issue in fresh clothing every day if it's a "red top, grey bottoms, white shirt" type level of uniform advice - but if it's a £15 logoed cardigan available only from the uniform shop on the high street that's been closed the last 4 months - I'm not likely to have enough spares affordable to be as easy to do that.

I'd like some confirmation from the school that it's uniforms in September so I can get on with stocking up - having been burnt by summer dresses I was expecting the kids to wear from around Easter onwards and had bought ready... I don't want to buy too much and not get the use out of it!

@LaurieMarlow

I don't know a single private school within a 100 mile radius that does not have a very formal uniform. Meanwhile all the sink schools nearby have pupils looking slovenly.

Of course uniform is not the only reason for private schools' better performance but it is certainly a key reason!

My child’s school is not wearing uniform at the moment. I do hope kids have to wear their uniform in September I think it’s much easier in terms of you know what to put them in on a daily basis and less faffing around. I also think it looks smarter rather than all the kids wearing oddments of clothing.

Of course uniform is not the only reason for private schools' better performance but it is certainly a key reason!

Haha, no it isn’t. How do you explain all the high performing schools elsewhere without uniform?

@FishyDuck

I think it is certainly instructive that the vast majority of top private schools all have very smart uniforms. They understand the high standards that uniforms help to encourage.

On the other hand, what percentage of schools rated inadequate by OFSTED have polo shirt 'uniforms'? They go alongside low standards and bad behaviour.

I don't know what percentage and a quick google hasn't enlightened me. Can you tell us?

I also think it looks smarter rather than all the kids wearing oddments of clothing.

And this is it in a nutshell - the British obsession with appearance over achievement. It's incredibly sad. I couldn't care less how scruffy teenagers look, as long as they are working hard in school and behaving well. And no, uniform does not magically make a child behave better and achieve more. There is zero evidence to suggest that. Schools which achieve well tend to have a strong, high quality leadership team, good pastoral care and a cohort of able teachers - and most importantly, a student body composed of kids who have parents who are fully invested in their child's education. Uniform is a red herring, otherwise you wouldn't see non-uniform countries doing well in terms of educational outcomes.

@FishyDuck so you're not within 100 miles of St Paul's then? You're not in the provinces are you?

@pointythings having a boy child who romps around in primary I would prefer a uniform to be worn MY personal opinion. It’s NOTHING to do with the reasons you have stated nor is it an obsession it is a lot easier and simpler to have primary kids in uniform. Also for school trips children can by identified by school.

I’m in the UK are you? If so I don’t see how it’s your business to be worrying about schools who may not be in uniform do you actually have experience of this personally?.
Kids are forever comparing about the latest trend it’s not an obsession caused by parents children will notice what others have/don’t have and they will come home asking their parents for this and that.

Why would any parent want to faff around on a school morning finding different garments on a daily basis for the it children to wear? I would rather have my child in uniform because it’s easier not for appearances, ridiculous statement.

• Kids are forever comparing about the latest trend it’s not an obsession caused by parents children will notice what others have/don’t have and they will come home asking their parents for this and that.

Why would any parent want to faff around on a school morning finding different garments on a daily basis for the it children to wear? I would rather have my child in uniform because it’s easier not for appearances, ridiculous statement.*

Parents buy these things for their children and the same parents that do are usually the same ones who care about the latest trends themselves.

Also, many people do not wear uniforms and are capable of planning and taking out their outfits the night before. It is not exactly a hardship.

My six year old chooses his own clothes everyday. It’s absolutely not a faff.

Redroses05 I am in the UK and my DDs were born here. I grew up in the Netherlands - no uniform. My DM worked in multiple secondaries - no uniform. So I have experience of both systems, thanks.

School trips happen in the Netherlands too and there are no copious media reports of non-uniformed children getting lost. That argument is a nonsense.

In terms of the obsession with branded clothing - as a parent it is your duty to say no sometimes. Your kids are your kids, not your friends. If you can't afford/don't want to buy branded garments, you tell your kids they can't have them. Simple. When they are older, they can get a job if they're so desperate to fit in with the crowd. It's perfectly possible to raise non brand obsessed children from a very young age.

And what do you mean, faffing about in the morning? Your kids lay out what they're going to wear the night before if they're school age. This shouldn't be rocket science. When they're older and take themselves off to school, if they fail to do this they will be late and they will have consequences. That's how they learn. And what could be easier than looking at the weather forecast and picking clothes out of the closet accordingly? Are British parents and children unable to manage this? I'm amazed.

@phoenixrosehere I have no interests in trends I’m not a child but obviously when I was a child myself I was obviously interested. I would rather continue to take my child’s uniform out the night before it’s easier. It’s children who will compare and what a child is wearing not the adults. Especially in high schools people have different budgets it’s an added pressure for the parents. It’s the same when they have events such as world book day and your expected to buy your child a new alfit they will wear once. Many people where exactly? I don’t see lots of schools in the UK not wearing uniform. Another poster mentioned bullying it’s true a uniform could minimise the chances of a child being picked on because of what they are wearing.

@pointythings here in the UK uniform is the norm here and there are valid reasons for that.

@pointythings some of us are happy with our children wearing uniform I actually like my child wearing a uniform. Don’t push your view onto me because you can’t see the bigger picture. It’s nothing to do with being British. Nonsense.

Of course part of the reason private schools have uniforms, often very distinctive ones, is they form part of their branding. They are businesses after all.

They definitely affected behaviour in my day. You didn’t misbehave out of school because you knew if you did some busybody would ring the school and the culprit would be hunted down for bringing the school into disrepute.

@LaurieMarlow

My six year old chooses his own clothes everyday. It’s absolutely not a faff.

That’s good for you. A uniform looks smarter. In work places your expected to wear a uniform depending on your job role. When taking kids on school trips they are reasons why children are expected to be in uniform.