Black Lives Matter not allowed to be discussed in class

[Geppili]

AIBU to be shocked that my primary school DS told me that they are not allowed to mention or talk about Black Lives Matter. Apparently teacher said that it is a political issue and therefore against the rules to discuss? They are Year 5. I am angry and shocked.

Well I can understand why it is seen as a political issue. It has become politicised and the message has been hijacked inappropriately for certain people’s/organisations own gain. Eg that twat of a you tuber encouraging the mass gathering of hundreds of kids in the centre of Birmingham the other day To boost his own ego, then trying to link his publicity stunt to black lives matter.

Children of primary school age just need simple messages such as some groups in society have ahead start on others and it’s important to be kind to everyone irrespective of differences.

A lot of the messages currently tagged onto this simple point are very problematic and politicised. Discussions about how the British Empire operates should only be taught in conjunction with setting the scene regarding the other Empires which have existed and still do exist and will continue to rise and fall. discussions on slavery should be taught with consideration of the dangers of anachronism. There is a danger kids will not listen to balance arguments and simply repeat what’s said on social media. School is there to help children develop critical thinking, this includes challenging oversimplified points on social media, but to do so, especially in the current environment would undoubtedly be seen as political.
I also think that the concept of white privilege is very complicated, too complicated for primary school children.

It’s a similar thing to the trans issue, full of complicated nuances that make it inappropriate for schools to teach about.

As I said teach everyone to equally and with respect. That is the right message for primary school children.

So we can’t say “white lies, “blackmail” etc now?

This is the sort of shit that undermines very important discussion on racism.

If only people could make a little effort!

I'd be reluctant to allow discussion of it purely because the chance of somebody's kid chipping in with MY Dad says... and then saying some incredibly unpleasant things in front of BAME children.

It's important to change those attitudes, but I'm not convinced it should be at the expense of BAME classmates hearing what their friends' Dads think of the situation.

Choma,

White and black in terms of good/bad comes from day and night, not racism. People fear the night because they are most at danger then.

The dark arts are practised away from the light. You shine light on things to make them clear and most light we use is white (as it is a mixture of all frequencies).

Ultimately black people are not black but differing shades of brown but, for some reason, ‘black’ is the word of choice right now.

There is nothing wrong with dark/black being used for magic/arts etc as it means things that are hidden/not in the light.

Do you honestly believe anyone thinks telling a white lie is better because people who are ‘white’ are perceived to be telling better lies?!

So we can’t say “white lies, “blackmail” etc now

You have said that. Not me.

It's just interesting to see where words come from, isn't it.

Do you honestly believe anyone thinks telling a white lie is better because people who are ‘white’ are perceived to be telling better lies

That's a very strange interpretation...

It's interesting that the word 'black' has negative connations in the language we use - with those words I described.

I haven't heard of that explanation before that you have come up with - and I certainly don't think it has connations in racism - more the association with the word 'black' vs 'white' in our everyday language.

@Hearhoovesthinkzebras

I doubt he was subscribing to an anti Zionist Marxist political policy.

How should the teacher have dealt with this? Allowed a discussion about it? And if this child saying BLM prompted another child to question the BLM stance on police particularly ACAB and be upset because their mum is a police officer? Should the teacher discuss and allow a discussion to include that too? And if their was a Jewish child in the class whose family are upset about the tweet - should that be addressed?

Or do you want the teacher to just affirm the views of BLM and ban any other views?

The teacher didn't need to affirm anything. They just didn't need to shut down a child saying black lives matter. The fact that it's seen as such an inflammatory statement is the problem. And shutting it down just famned the flames more than ignoring it would have.

FTM,

So is ‘all lives matter’ inflammatory? Both are literally true (I hope)...

In a school, this topic is fraught with danger right now.

There is a way to deal with it and that way is planned, with ground rules, with time for explanations and intelligent debate.

Grrrr, makes me so angry, of course it should be discussed in an age appropriate way - it is NOT a political issue. This is the same as saying we shouldn’t discuss homelessness or the plight of people who claim asylum in other countries - it is about compassion and humanity.
Saying that you can also argue that everything is political to an extent and young children should be brought up to understand that and that their actions/decisions will eventually have consequences

With terms like "white lie" and "blackmail", it's obviously not racist to say them; however, there are complexities to them as well. "Black people" are not actually black just as "white people" aren't actually white, yet the white European slave traders/human traffickers established this system of "white people" and "black people" to attribute inferiority and negativity to black people and thus enforce racism.

Due to this , some "black people" actually identify as "brown" and some mixed race "black people" do identify as brown as well. Therefore, to the poster claiming BLM doesn't include brown lives, it does. BLM is for anyone who is viewed as "black" in the eyes of society.

FTMF30 Exactly!

Black lives matter is a phrase within itself. It's always tied to the organisation so that excuses can seamlessly be made to swerve the issue of civil & human rights abuse and murder based on race and colour, and to call a social injustice issue 'political'.

Protests by Stand Up To Racism and similar for instance are always described as black lives matter - which, they are because they focus on injustices experienced by black people. But they're not BLM Organisation protests. Black lives protests are normally made up of several organisations protesting against racism.

How easy it is here to give people something to jump on so they can deny racism and explain it away as "political".

OP I absolutely would ask to know more. Racism is a humanity issue and that could have been discussed with young enquiring minds. Or even, why black lives DO matter as much as anyone else's. The days of 'Id best keep quiet' or 'maybe my child is wrong/Teacher didn't MEAN it need to be gone. Ask what the situation is and take it from there. Year 5 are old enough to discuss black lives issues.

The world is changing whether closed mindsets like it or not.

@chomalungma the etymology of these phrases is very clear. Its clearly not helpful to bring these terms into a Discussion on racism.

As another poster says light/white is clearly linked to the day, being the opposite of night/dark clearly linked to the night.

Black not night

Well, our primary school discussed it and set work around it. Perhaps they are nervous about saying the wrong thing. In today's climate, it is extremely easy for the children or teachers to say something wrong. It has also moved onto political points, so I can see that it's not necessarily appropriate and it's a difficult topic re police brutality in the states. However, our school have approached it as a simple diversity topic, celebrating black art/achievements and kindness. They have pitched it right.

Yes, Tiddles. I imagine that the work was carefully planned and considered by the teacher in consultation with senior leaders. It was not just launched into at the end of a session when one child shouted something out. These matters are sensitive and deserve thought and planning.

This is the same as saying we shouldn’t discuss homelessness or the plight of people who claim asylum in other countries

Those topics should not be covered in the 5 minutes at the end of a Zoom call off the cuff with no planning by a teacher. They should be given the time and consideration they deserve. Not all times and spaces are appropriate for all topics, even the important ones.

Maybe the teacher's reaction wasn't the best - we don't really know and neither does the OP as they weren't there - and I agree that the OP has every right to take this up with the school - but the capability of covering this topic in 5 minutes is none. The fact 'fascist' has been used against a teacher with so little information is available feels so odd to me. Maybe the teacher fucked up and maybe the school could set time to discuss this, but fascist? Really? That seem to be diminishing what that word means and the effects of that ideology.

@Geppili

FTMF30 Exactly!

FTMF30 also said There is a way to deal with it and that way is planned, with ground rules, with time for explanations and intelligent debate.

...and the situation in your OP was far from any of those things.

@larrygrylls yes "white lives matter" is inflammatory. Saying BLM doesn't mean you're saying other lives don't matter.
Surely you must have seen this explained over the last few weeks since the George Floyd incident happened?
Did you not see the news story about the Burnley football supporter who hired a bloody plane to trail "all lives matter" above a football match?

This thread is so depressing. We don't know the exact discussion or context of what happened in the situation the OP is describing. But I'm shocked that there are so many posters on here that don't think that political matters should be discussed (in the right way) with children of 9/10, that people think that school has no role in that. And at the number of people on here who don't accept that racism very much still exists in this dat and age, and that don't accept that institutional racism is a thing.

There is still a long long way to go

Children of 9 or 10 learn about "political matters" in school through class elections, voting on school council etc. Children don't need the sins of the world loading onto their shoulders when they have no power to do anything about it. Some awareness raising, yes. Some fundraising, yes. Good schools do these sorts of things. But we don't want to leave young children with the idea that they are responsible for the horrible mess the world is in.

'@larrygrylls yes "white lives matter" is inflammatory. Saying BLM doesn't mean you're saying other lives don't matter.
Surely you must have seen this explained over the last few weeks since the George Floyd incident happened?'

I have seen it explained many times and, yes, I do understand it. However, that does not mean that I accept it in totality. I still believe that people should be allowed to use words with their literal meaning, if that is what they intend.

I do think it is rude to say 'all live matters' in response to 'black lives matter', given its current resonance. And the banner in Burnley was naked provocation. However, I do not believe that, if a year 5 student stated it, it should be closed down or considered provocative.

Do remember what this thread is about....

Thank you for all the replies and discussion. Today the same teacher revealed a medical condition to the class. Is that ok? At pick up, my DS ran out of school and asked 'What does Mumsnet think about censoring kids speech, black or white?'

Jeramiah- I think it's hard to discuss George Floyd with 9/10 year olds without the children who have police officers parents feeling horrified and black children feel like their Dad or male family member could be murdered next. Children generally think of the police as adults that they can trust - we actively tell them that if they get lost or whatever then they are a good person to get help from.

My son was about y5 when Trump did that speech about building the wall. At school the next day the kids were doing Trump impressions. To them Trump is a character from far away and they wouldn't have thought of the people who might have been scared by the announcement. These are shielded white children who wouldn't have been aware of the abuse some "foreigners" got after the referendum too.

I realise that my kids and I are privileged to have never had the talk about the police. We aren't British but we are white and have English accents so don't get hassled.

I'm not saying that older children shouldn't discuss this though. I'd actually say it was more important to do so as they may have seen the video but not discussed things with another person. In normal times I think it would definitely had been discussed.

There was a trouble-free socially distanced protest in our town and my secondary aged child would have gone were it not a pandemic but she'd be protesting blm rather than BLM

The fact that it's seen as such an inflammatory statement is the problem. And shutting it down just famned the flames more than ignoring it would have.

So referencing an organisation that has an anti Zionist Marxist policy isn't inflammatory? Should that not be addressed too?

We have record knife crime and children trapped into working for County Lines because the police aren't funded properly not to mention that they just give you a crime number so you can claim from insurance if you're burgled or have your car stolen.