Black Lives Matter not allowed to be discussed in class

[Geppili]

AIBU to be shocked that my primary school DS told me that they are not allowed to mention or talk about Black Lives Matter. Apparently teacher said that it is a political issue and therefore against the rules to discuss? They are Year 5. I am angry and shocked.

Racism is deeply linked with power and privilege. Irish Travellers belong to a group which don't have that power. Individuals will have a certain amount of privilege by being white but as a group, they experience discrimination as other minority groups do.

So you were wrong when you said that white people can't experience racism then? Only, it was you that said it so.im not sure why you're trying not explain to.me how Irish Travellers can experience racism - I know but I wasn't the person who said that white people can't experience racism.

I can see why the teacher may not have wanted a free for all about BLM without having done any groundwork first.

Kids that age do parrot what they’ve learned at home, so there was the risk of “all lives matter” type comments and the discussion getting heated and descending into racism. It’s the sort of thing that needs to be taught carefully and sensitively, so the teacher would need to prepare for it.

I do think year 5 children are old enough to learn about racism and BLM, but it should be done properly, not in response to a random shout out about Bake Off

@hearhoovesthinkzebras

No, I still don't believe white people can experience racism. Again the groups you mentioned are minorities and many identify as belonging to an ethnic or cultural race that isn't defined by being white. You asked a question and I answered it but I guess you'll continue being the antagonist as you're quite prone to on these boards.

White people who don't belong to other minority groups can't experience racism. White people are not oppressed due to the colour of their skin.

I don't want my kids to be taught politics in school especially not indoctrinate children into believing their are simple answers to complex subjects. Politics is complicated. There is a place for them to learn about politics and it is when they are old enough to understand and by parents, not some random teacher.

I expect my children to learn academic subjects at school - Maths, English, Science, reading and writing. I hate all this politicising and financialising of everything, it's sick. Young minds should be allowed to be young minds. They will be adults exposed to all the horrors of the world quickly enough. So many teachers seem to have such strong personal political opinions and seem to be so ready to bring these into their professional roles. I wish they'd just stick to teaching core subjects and leave politics to be discussed with their friends and family.

It's not a political issue, it's a morality issue.

I don't want my kids to be taught politics in school especially not indoctrinate children into believing their are simple answers to complex subjects. Politics is complicated.

Addressing racism is not complicated nor indoctrination
I wonder what you'd say to black and brown children who are bullied because of the colour of their skin? Have they to endure this because some parents don't want their children to learn to treat others with decency and respect?

"I don't want my kids to be taught politics in school especially not indoctrinate children into believing their are simple answers to complex subjects."

Yes complex subjects like the police in the US shooting black people, if only there were a simple solution hmmmm.

Clouds,

And therein lies the issue.

It is a tremendously complex subject, regardless of what you feel.

You don’t want it to be discussed, you want to brain wash.

That is not the purpose of a school.

It is really necessary to discuss these issues but a lesson on this would have to be carefully set up with ground rules in advance. It would not work as a free for all.

@Geppili

Thanks. I suppose the kid just used it as a slogan and I was really surprised that it got shut down. All the kids were outraged by the shut down. It's kind of Fascist to me. They just wanted to be able to mention current affairs which touch on many of their lives.

Subjects like this need to be taught and discussed really carefully. Yes, there'll almost certainly be lessons that cover the subject at some point. but on this occasion the teacher was caught on the hop, and the pupil brought it up in a very casual situation. This was not the time to pick up on the subject and deliver an unplanned lesson.

It's just as likely that if the teacher had, one of the kids would have gone home and given a scrambled account of the lesson to a racist parent and caused the school all sorts of problems.

Anything political or socially complex subject has to be handled really carefully by schools. Especially when delivered to 10 year olds. You only have to read Mumsnet to see how some parents kick off about such subjects in school. The child calling out could potentially have started a difficult interaction between pupils, especially if another had countered with 'all lives matter' for instance.

i have had to request that they don't discuss it at the school in terms of the protests etc. this is because my child is terrified at the thought of me her mother going to work as a police officer and being attacked by protesters.

the police attacks are all over the news and she was begging me not to go to work. However it took a lot of time to explain that the violent protesters were the minority just like the bad police officers were a tiny minority.

@starbuggy said it better while I was typing my own post!

[quote WhatwouldLangdo]@hearhoovesthinkzebras

No, I still don't believe white people can experience racism. Again the groups you mentioned are minorities and many identify as belonging to an ethnic or cultural race that isn't defined by being white. You asked a question and I answered it but I guess you'll continue being the antagonist as you're quite prone to on these boards.

White people who don't belong to other minority groups can't experience racism. White people are not oppressed due to the colour of their skin.[/quote]
This makes no sense - white people can't experience racism unless they belong to a minority ethnic group, in which case they can experience racism but you don't consider them.white despite them.being white? Ok.

I am from a Jewish background. I'm.white. Some people would recognise my heritage and some might not. I've still witnessed, and my.mum has received, anti-Semitic comments.

The issue of racism should be addressed in schools, absolutely. The problem is now that BLM.and blm have become mixed together and in some.people's minds are one and the same. I'm not sure how far schools, especially primary schools, should be going in addressing this. BLM is a far left organisation - should schools be supporting that?

Schools indoctrinate all the time just in their curriculum.

The stories they read to children.
The people they learn about in history.
In science

The hidden curriculum is indoctrination. It's good to see that the curriculum does change to become more diverse. But some people see this as 'politics' in the classroom.

I wonder what you'd say to black and brown children who are bullied because of the colour of their skin? Have they to endure this because some parents don't want their children to learn to treat others with decency and respect?

In my mind though racism.is a separate issue to BLM.

BLM is a political issue, tied up.with Marxism, anti capitalism, anti police, anti nuclear family. I wouldn't want my children learning that ACAB is correct.

The BLM.movement focuses solely on black.people so your point about brown children (in relation to children with an Asian background) is interesting because if you want schools to.uphold BLM then that excludes Asian children and in fact other ME children too.

Children should absolutely be taught about inclusivity, racism, bullying, but not in relation to extreme political ideologies, in my opinion.

I think the problem.is many people aren't aware of the BLM.organisation.

@1moreRep

i have had to request that they don't discuss it at the school in terms of the protests etc. this is because my child is terrified at the thought of me her mother going to work as a police officer and being attacked by protesters.

the police attacks are all over the news and she was begging me not to go to work. However it took a lot of time to explain that the violent protesters were the minority just like the bad police officers were a tiny minority.

I can absolutely understand this. That's the why, in my opinion, schools.need to be very careful here. This is a very complex issue and thought and care need to go.into tackling it. It can't be covered in a two second interaction with a ten year old.

As a pp said, what if another child counteracts with "all lives matter" or another yells out "ACAB" in support of the child who called out "BLM"?

BLM and racism are interwined but different things.

In fact I'm happy to go one further and say that white people can't experience racism.

As ever on these threads I feel compelled to point out that the concept of white privilege and the related assertion that white privilege means a white person cannot experience racism is just that, a concept and you can choose whether or not you agree with those assertions. I'd recommend doing plenty of reading though. The ideas have been around for decades in lesser forms but really took off in academia during the eighties and so here we are. However if you don't agree with the concept you'll definitely be called a racist/fragile etc and absolutely vilified for it even if your own lived experience means you feel you have been a victim of racism.

I believe white privilege exists but I don't believe white people can't experience racism. And mostly I feel it's really important that people know they can decide what they think for themselves without being shamed and shut down which happens all too often when a view is expressed that "The Crowd" don't agree with.

As for the OP. Black lives do of course matter, but "BLM" - the movement and their aims is deeply problematic for many and I think the matter requires careful nuanced discussion with children so they don't just equate the concept entirely with the organisation, which evenmany adults have judging by posts here on MN. I'm not surprised the teacher shut it down, I doubt they've managed to formulate a careful enough way to discuss the matter in the few weeks since it has happened and so just prefer to curtail the discussion until they have a plan.

To all teachers out there - What was talked about in schools when other major political incidents happened around the world. For instance was 9/11 discussed, the paris bombings or a war.

If these were all discussed in schools then there is no reason not to discuss blm.

I think people are confusing what is in essence a Marxist political ideology against the strive for equal opportunity for all. The latter I am fully behind, the former does not sit well with me.

The difficulty is separating the social and the political in the classroom.

Discussing human rights, racism and police brutality because a child has asked a question about what they've seen on the news would be totally acceptable.

Allowing a lesson to be detailed because a student wants to chant the slogan of a political group, not reasonable.

As a secondary English teacher we cover a lot of social issues in literature and explore how political views are expressed in literature. This is done through careful planning.
As a form teacher who teaches PSHE, it's entirely normal to teach about racism without rubber stamping a pressure group with a broad agenda. I find the dichotomy of 'affirm the political group BLM or you're a racist' to be grossly oversimplistic and part of an increasing trend of soundbite 'with us or against us' politics.

I'd not expect a teacher to redirect the class to affirm the agenda of a pressure group than I would expect them to validate a group on either side of the Brexit campaign.

@lolasmiles - That is why you are an English teacher and I am not!

What I said but 100% more eloquently put!

Listened to an interview where a man has worked for a charity in Manchester for 20 years, preventing young black youths from entering into gangs, being groomed, preventing county line crimes, posted a blog stating that telling you people that the system is against them is the wrong message to send.

He criticised the concept of BLM political ideology, sacked the next day.

That man has more than likely single handily done more for black youngsters than all the judgmental posturing twitter trolls baying for his blood.

I find the dichotomy of 'affirm the political group BLM or you're a racist' to be grossly oversimplistic and part of an increasing trend of soundbite 'with us or against us' politics.

I'd not expect a teacher to redirect the class to affirm the agenda of a pressure group than I would expect them to validate a group on either side of the Brexit campaign.

Exactly.

Conversations about racism in schools have to be carefully addressed and non-political.

I think some of the answers you've had have been ridiculous.

I can understand a 10yo thinking that shouting BLM when a black child wins is being an ally to the cause. There are many adults who struggle with this and clumsy in their execution even if their heart is in the right place. There's educated women on here who will say stuff like "everybody where I'm from calls it the ch*nky" or insist it's not racist to ask a non-white person where they are really from etc

I think that discussing BLM would lead to a discussion about George Lloyd as one of the kids will have seen the video and that will upset a minority of the class. Ime it's very unusual for a y5 to distrust the police and it would be easy to end up with an ACAB sort of take which will upset children of police officers.

BLM as a group have unacceptably extremist goals imho. Year 5 kids don't need to know about extremist groups who want to defund the police - many will struggle to name the 3 main political parties in the first place as there's no politics taught really.

WhatwouldLangdo

In fact I'm happy to go one further and say that white people can't experience racism.

Its this sort of rubbish that means teachers are not going to touch this subject without knowledge of the school's and their full backing.