To ask for advice about my sons horrible behaviour

[FelicityBob]

Today my 4 year old boy came up to me and said “I’m going to smash you to pieces one day”. I get “I hate you” several times a day. Lots of talk about punching, kicking, fighting. Mixed in with some love.
His nasty words started when he started school. I put it down to mixing with older children. During lockdown he got better for a while, but the last few weeks have been awful again. There are the usual tantrums when he doesn’t get his own way, but it’s the nasty stuff that he says that really bothers me.
What can I do? Ignore it? Currently we have a smiley chart with happy faces and sad faces. He loves getting a happy face and gets really upset when he gets a sad face. I’ve tried talking to him about feelings, what makes him angry, why is he sad, etc. When he says nasty things I tell him that what he’s saying isn’t very nice, making mummy sad, etc.
Am I doing something wrong? Should I ignore him?
I restrict what he watches on tv and what games he plays on the tablet as he would choose fighting games if he was allowed. He wants to watch things with bad guys in.
Any advice gratefully received.

When you ask him why he says these things, what does he say? Does he ever actually get physical or is it all words? It could suggest there might be an underlying emotional or behavioural issue. It might be worth speaking to a paediatric specialist.

Other than that, I’m afraid I can’t suggest any solutions as I honestly don’t know, but I do think getting to the cause of the issue could help. I hope you find an answer. It must be a horrible thing to hear.

Do you have a new baby/ younger child?

He doesn't hate you. It's just words. Mine have said the same things.
Could you talk to him about coping strategies? Suggest what he can do to calm himself? Breathing, counting to three etc
Maybe he could build something and smash it up - a wall with blocks in garden or whatever. Do it together. The blocks are the bad things and he beats them all. ? Use toys he loves. Make one a baddie and have lots of goodies too!Good luck!

He has a nearly three year old brother. They fight over toys and hit each other and pinch, which lockdown hasn’t helped.

He does hit me sometimes yes. When he said about smashing me to pieces he just randomly walked up to me and said it without any malice. It makes me wonder if he’s looking for a reaction or testing boundaries.
I had a chat with him while we were cuddling in his bed at bedtime tonight and I asked him how it makes him feel when he says nasty things and he just said “I love you” and squeezed me tight.

I don't have any advice but I just wanted to say well done for asking for help now rather than 3 years down the line.

My middle child started to say things like this at a very young age. I have no clue how he thought of them. It turns out he has autism. Im not saying your DS has, but it might be worth speaking to his school to see if they have any concerns too and the gp if they do.

The reason I ask is because I find my 5yo gets angry with me when he feels I’m favouring the 4yo, e.g. if I inadvertently fail to praise something he did and I have praised the younger one for doing the same thing. Or any perceived injustice really 😐

Watched the incredibles with my dd recently and she's quite motivated by being a superhero now. We've agreed she's only allowed to say rude words to 'baddies'. She still shouts 'stupid' at me when she's angry and hits sometimes but she is on board generally with superheroes not saying horrible things and lashing out and is getting better at talking about feelings and apologising when calm. It's a process OP, I can see the lovely girl there who doesn't have full self control yet and gets overwhelmed with emotions I bet it's the same for your boy. I say 'how would you feel if someone said that to you?' a lot as well and she knows she would be sad. If your ds knows it's wrong when you talk about it later, there's consequences and lots of talk about handling feelings I'm sure he'll get there you're doing everything you can. You could ask him to come up with a plan for what to do when he's angry eg jump up and down, or go be on his own in his room and then whatever it is try and remind him he said he wanted to do that and it might help him carry out his plan and get out of the habit. Parenting is hard and I often feel a bit helpless initially about how to help them when faced with a raging dc you're not alone

Just read your update, I'd definitely not give a big reaction and just say that's a very unkind thing to say we don't talk about hurting people it's not kind. What's he looking for if not a reinforcement that it's not ok to talk like that and that you love him. Do you think he heard it somewhere? Has he got male role models or does he think this is how men are from action tv/ films/ games etc?

Keep talking and cuddling. It's a tough world for a 4 yr old to fathom! You sound like a lovely mum. Start bedtime routines earlier s you have that chat time with him sometimes.

@Mamette

The reason I ask is because I find my 5yo gets angry with me when he feels I’m favouring the 4yo, e.g. if I inadvertently fail to praise something he did and I have praised the younger one for doing the same thing. Or any perceived injustice really 😐

You have a point there. It's a vicious circle because I probably do seem as though I favour his brother as he generally gets more praise and told off less, as although he can be an absolute handful, he's not nasty. I'm working on praising positive behaviour and rewards. I haven't seen any signs of autism but I'll have a google. I'm really afraid he's going to be a nasty kid at school. Before lockdown he was always well behaved and polite at nursery and school but I'm afraid his social skills have gone out the window. He told my mum he hated her because she told him off for hitting his brother the other day. He wouldn't have done that a few months ago.

The only male role model at the moment is his dad who as been home a lot more lately as he's working from home. We haven't seen my in-laws since lockdown and have only seen my dad a couple to times but don't see him that much anyway. He does have a male TA in his class but he's not at school at the moment.

Thank you all for your replies and advice.

No advice as such but wanted to give you a fist bump of solidarity. Reading your post was like reading about my own 4 year old son. He too had started saying hurtful things since starting school, a lot of "I hate you" and "I'm going to kill you one day" plus new physical laahing out. It is so difficult to hear and feel.
We've tried most of the suggestions above already and also given him a book called How are you feeling today? By Molly Potter that describes emotions and gives alternative ways to deal with them. In the heat of the moment it's impossible to get through to him. But afterwards we talk about how he felt in that moment and how what he says and what he does affects those around him. We haven't seen a change in behaviour yet but fingers crossed we'll get through to him soon.
A friend suggested autism to me too but the school has no concerns and he doesn't behave at school as he does at home.
Sending virtual hugs. It's not nice to experience.

My 4 year old can be like this but he would never go to school or do it in public. Sounds like he is testing your reaction.

My autistic child has anger issues too and his primary school used a technique called Zones of Regulation which really helped him understand what he was feeling. I think it is useful for all children.

My son said bizarre things to me when he was 5 including he wanted to put me in the middle of the road and pour petrol on me..no idea why..I wasn't a horrible mum or anything. Now he is a gorgeous adult son.

Oh gosh, when he was about 3 my ds regularly told me he was going to cut my head open and eat my brains.

And all he’d ever watched / been exposed to at that point was CBeebies.

He just didn’t have the words yet for the big emotions he was feeling - he also used to get very very angry and kick, hit etc.

3 years on and he doesn’t seem to be a psychopath (I did worry!). Lots of time, cuddles, love and when he had the big emotional outbursts sitting with him and just being there (outside the room if he was too physical), along with consequences for his actions (natural wherever possible), teaching him to name his feelings - and naming ours when he upset us - and lots of consistency and he is honestly incredible now at managing emotions. We still get the odd outburst but he controls it much better in terms of doing so with less impact on others, and he can explain what is causing his anger or upset now.

Another small but very powerful thing we do is remind him that he is in control. That the only person in charge of him, is him. That doesn’t mean he gets to do whatever he wants, because all our actions have consequences - but those can be good or bad depending on the choices we make.

Respond to “I hate you” with “Oh dear. I love you.”
Don’t let him see that his words and behaviour hurt you. Love, love, love.

If he's not doing it agressively, could you turn it into a silly game.
Him - I'm going to smash you up.
You - well I'm going to smother you in jelly and then feed you to elephants.
Him - what? Starts laughing. Situation defused.

If he says it when he's cross, I'd just say something like "You sound like you're feeling cross. What's up?". If he can tell you why, that's great. If not you can say "I'm wondering if you're feeling cross because .....(insert your best guess)" and then let him tell you if you've got it right.

But I wouldn't tolerate any actual violence. Any hitting and I would put him in time out in his room for 4 minutes with a stern "No hitting. It hurts!" and no discussion.

.

Wow you have all made me feel so much better!
I am a bit afraid to admit this one as it’s so awful - when he was saying nasty things to me today I asked him if he would talk like that to his head teacher and he said yes I would, I’ll destroy her. So I’m terrified now about him going back to school!

I had one daughter who used to say exaggeratedly violent things like 'I'll smash your glasses off your face', I was worried at the time but never posted on here as I was concerned everyone would say she was psychologically disturbed! She is now a delightful, well regulated teen, but we have talked about why she used to get very angry or have meltdowns (I know that this is usually only referring to autism, but hers lasted 1-2 hours and often involved trashing her room). She was just full of emotion as a 4-8 year old, and she wasn't very good at expressing it, so it used to get all saved up and come out in these immensely awful tantrums that would last for hours. I did some things with her like helped her to articulate and name her emotions (this is out of How to Talk so Kids will Listen and Listen so Kids will Talk book I think), and also we used to make a list of two things that made her angry or sad, two things that made her happy or calm and two other things that she wanted to talk about each evening- all of this started her on the road to allowing her to express her feelings and so they started to come out more naturally.

As for hitting, she did lash out and throw things til about aged 6/7, way older than some other children, but I decided to go nuclear on this at this age as I realised she would grow into an out of control teen, so one particular time she was so tantrumming, she lost something really significant (a big deal trip to a leisure park) and also screen time, one day for every 'hit' or 'thrown thing'- she lost about 10 days that day and we enforced it. That absolutely extinguished all hitting or throwing of things!

It is hard when your child says disturbing things, but it's more common than we think and people tend not to talk about it!

If you met her now, you would be struck by how calm, centred and mature she is for her age. These things aren't stuck in stone, and it's really worth trying different approaches to see if you can change things and seek a second opinion/medical advice if you are stuck. The 'How to Talk so Kids will Listen and Listen so Kids will Talk' is a fabulous book for this age and it may be there's ideas in there about how to reset things/change things.

My (then) 3-year-old announced in a busy supermarket that she was going to “make me dead” so that she could have “a nicer mummy”. She used to threaten to kill all sorts of people fairly frequently, probably went on for about three months. She never seemed particularly angry when she was saying it. More the cold eyes of a serial killer...! She’s now a perfectly non-psychopathic tween. I think loads of kids say this sort of stuff.

If he’s not really angry when he says it, then I second the idea of diffusing the situation by making up
a ridiculous impossible “threat” in reply (“I’m going to feed you cabbage and give you to the (toy) rabbit to eat”) and something positive “shall we go to the park later or will we colour in” to redirect attention. Don’t engage with the threats seriously.

If he’s really angry when he says these things then obviously don’t joke about his feelings. Tell him you can see he’s cross, etc. But again, try not to react to his threats, only acknowledge his feelings (because you don’t really want him to be threatening to dismember his Head Teacher)...

The hitting needs an immediate, strong consequence.

I’d he’s a generally angry child, then a safe outlet might be helpful... kicking a ball around, trampolining, kneading bread, whatever.

My autistic son regularly says to me "I hate you, Mum, and I hope you die."

My response is always a calm "You don't hate me, you're just cross with me. I love you and I like you."

Mostly that does the trick and he says "Actually Mum, I don't hate you, I just don't like you at the moment." And that's fine.

Not that I'm saying your son is autistic but just wanted to give you my experience.
And on the flip side, my son is as likely to say "I love you" just as much!

Oh, and he used to hit me all the time too. Once he could express himself with words and was encouraged to talk about how he was feeling, this lessened, thankfully!