To think they may as well say "don't send children with additional needs back in September"

[drspouse]

The current plan is:
All in bubbles of 30
All in the classroom together
All facing the front (WTF has that got to do with virus protection)
No use of shared spaces except at your rota time and after it's been bleached.
Teachers at the front, 2m away
AND focus on behaviour.

My DS has an EHCP and needs a space to escape to when the classroom gets too much. He's often been using a work space outside the classroom. We just looked round a lovely mainstream primary that has a behaviour base and a nurture base. Oh and a library and an ICT suite that children can access at lunchtime.
His previous school had very little space and the corridor was the library etc.

So how are schools supposed to cater for children who need time out of the classroom to prevent meltdown?
This includes children who are having a hard time at home, can't cope with playground noise etc. Not just those who have a diagnosis of SEN.

And children like my DD who have small group teaching outside the classroom most days - you can't do that with 2m separation and all facing the front even if you can disinfect the break out area.

So I'm guessing nobody really wants a child like my DS in their child's classroom if he's not allowed to go out to his calm down area when he needs to?

Well, I guess I knew the government didn't really want to deal with inconvenient children who don't fit their mould, but this confirms it.

I really feel for teachers, yet another impossible task.

It's not ableist to say that we cannot have a different standard of behaviour atm for SEN and non SEN students.

Of course it is. And why would children with special needs be more likely to deliberately infect people than anyone else? What a horrible assumption.

We cannot take chances unfortunately with this virus as one infection could quite easily lead to death.

Anyone going back to school or indeed anywhere is a threat by that measure. Do we all need to stay locked up forever or just disabled people?

I would say that the attitude of some posters is an eye-opener and an utter disgrace. No one should matter apart from their child - too bad if everyone else suffers, is neglected and not looked after.

Please explain to me how my disabled child receiving the support set out in his EHC plan causes your child to suffer, be neglected, or not looked after. I would genuinely like to know how the removal of disadvantages for my child creates disadvantages for yours.

I would say that the attitude of some posters is an eye-opener and an utter disgrace. No one should matter apart from their child - too bad if everyone else suffers, is neglected and not looked after.

Yes it is. Sadly you never get used to the ignorant and selfish attitude of some parents of children who are fortunate not to have additional needs
who can’t see life outside their own little bubble.

Where did u read this? As far as I'm aware some schools are being strict right now BUT the rules are being relaxed considerably for September so the children can be back as normal

Almost any child, pushed hard enough, will defend themselves or fight back.
The difference is that we have fairly robust procedures in place for things that most children perceive as a threat (being physically attacked, for example) but not those things that some children with SEN perceive as a threat (excessive noise, for example, or being physically prevented from leaving the classroom).

@Looneytune253

Where did u read this? As far as I'm aware some schools are being strict right now BUT the rules are being relaxed considerably for September so the children can be back as normal

It was leaked in the media yesterday that it was what was expected to be announced tomorrow when the next update on schools comes. Hopefully someone encourages some common sense to be applied along the way!

The witnesses on the Parliamentary committee that @DobbinTheFool linked to were saying the same - emphasis on "discipline" with a punitive model would be disastrous for many children with SEN.

how does that work with years 7, 8, 9, 10, 11 and 12, do they start lunch at 10 on the morning and finish at 3?

Meanwhile the rest of the world manages fine with 20-30 minute lunchbreaks to eat a sandwich or two, a banana and drink a glass of milk. Why can't brits do the same? Will the kids explode if their lunch isn't hot? Or if their playtime is a bit short?

@Isthisfinallyit I think it's more that with large year group sizes and small inefficient children you can't get them all in the lunch hall, feed them all and get them all back into the classroom inside half an hour per group!

"3:48BankofNook

And how fucking offensive is it that there are people out there who seem to think that children with disabilities and/or SEN are like ticking timebombs?"
I havent read the post behind this, however I do think that unfortunately sometimes there are children like ticking time bombs, sen or not. I think if you know there is a child like this, it's natural to worry how safe your own child is. I recall a sen child scratching the face off my year 3, years ago. So there sometimes is opportunity for this sort of thing to happen. It's not necessarily offensive to think this might happen.

"@IsthisfinallyitI think it's more that with large year group sizes and small inefficient children you can't get them all in the lunch hall, feed them all and get them all back into the classroom inside half an hour per group!"
It's also difficult with high school children. My kids told me they wanted packed lunches because by the time they got to the food counter, the bell had gone.

"And it was said in response to a poster stating that children who are a potential danger, implying children with disabilities and/or SEN, should not be allowed into school in September. Essentially saying that children with disabilities and/or SEN should not be mixing with the "normal" children."
I dont think that follows on. Not all sen kids are a danger.

For most children with SEN (who are not "a SEN child" any more than I'm "an asthma adult") it's only an issue if their needs are not met.

Just like for another child it is an issue if their need not to be bullied and physically beaten is not met.

But needs cant be met every minute of the day, can they?! My child has his face scratched off by a sen child during playtime. The child was being watched by two members of staff but things happen dont they. Not their fault they couldnt get there quick enough. You could say "well his needs werent being met", but that's doesnt help my child who got attacked, does it.

Anyway, just explaining that it's not unusual to be fearful of some sen children who are likely to be a danger to others.

We have lunch in our classrooms. 🤷‍♀️ School meals get brought round, packed lunches are easy obviously.

Then they have staggered playtimes in different areas.

I have been challenged by a parent at school as to why my son "always gets more", this thread reminds me very much of that. It seems kids with send are viewed as getting more not getting what they need to have the same education and this is resented by some. Send kids are perceived as getting more and better deal. Usually the parents that complain about it are the type in the "you ok hun?" Memes.

The truth is all children would do better with the support my son gets but my son needs it and some can do without. All children need an education.

As a mum of a reception aged child who is in the middle of an EHCP assessment and has just been given a 1 to 1 this thread is HORRIFYING. The barriers my child faces are huge. They cannot access education without her support. Sorry if people don't like that.

I think it's difficult times at the moment and nothing is long term. What schools could normally accommodate for sen children, might now not be easy to accommodate. So it might be that in order to get 20 children educated, some children have to wait till they can be accommodated for. It might be that as soon as rules change around social distancing etc, this is made up for.

"For most children with SEN (who are not "a SEN child" any more than I'm "an asthma adult"
The term is asthmatic adult. Just like diabetic adult, or diabetic child. Nothing wrong with saying sen child or adult.

@TabbyMumz

I think it's difficult times at the moment and nothing is long term. What schools could normally accommodate for sen children, might now not be easy to accommodate. So it might be that in order to get 20 children educated, some children have to wait till they can be accommodated for. It might be that as soon as rules change around social distancing etc, this is made up for.

How can anyone even try to justify that as right?

Basically your saying the children who can sit perfectly can go to school but those who may struggle for whatever reason will have to sacrifice their education for others?

How long do you suggest these children are denied an education in order to ensure the children who fit their model of a perfect child can keep going in?

The reason for not having SEN first as there are too many people who see the disability/education need before the see the child. As if some are the responses are only concerned about the virus. Too many parents And their SEN children have had to endure the school witch-hunt, some disabled child do not have to be concerned about peer bullying there is enough adults doing the job for them.

@danni0509

You cannot reasonably expect one-to-one in the current climate

😂

ds has 1-1 because he's an absolute danger to himself and others, if he didn't have 1-1 at school and 1-1 at home he would be DEAD

Even 1-1 isn't enough and the more I pick him up the more I'm seeing he's having 2-1 at school, same at home, I'm struggling to manage him on my own now he's getting older.

Sometimes 1-1 is necessary for more reasons than a child learning.

You want a 1:1 to keep your child alive, so selfish... don't you know there's a pandemic 😉😂 I'm a 1:1 and today I stoped my pupil cutting his tongue with scissors during art, absolutely zero social distancing, absolutely the right decision!

Pupils who need 1:1 need 1:1 regardless of what else is going on, they need to be safe and they need education. So many SEN pupils are without school placements generally and it's a disgrace. There needs to be a way for them to go back.

Op maybe your child could start sitting at a desk for short tasks but not be expected to be there all the time, it's an unrealistic expectation and he should never be set up to fail! A safe break out space is important too if he needs it! We're in the process of figuring out where that can be for my pupil next year.

Sirzy, I dont think I said anything about sitting perfectly. I was more thinking of there being enough teachers and space. So for example in order to get say 20 kids in, in small groups, social distancing, they need as many rooms as possible, so might not be able to accommodate a child needing one to one in a room of their own. Because if they do have a room just for one child, that means 10 cant go in that room. Sometimes needs must, and its only a temporary situation. They can look to accommodate some sen children in other ways, online etc. After all, most learning is going to be online for the foreseeable future.

@BankofNook

I know what you mean.

DS can't write properly so has a laptop. As things stand at the moment they don't know if he will be able to have it in class, reasons why are fairly woolly but it all seems to boil down to overzealous "infection control". I've been told all pupils will be provided with a plastic, wipe clean pencil case containing a pen, a pencil, a ruler, an eraser, and a pencil sharpener. Great. Except DS, aged 11, has the writing skills of a 5yo so is not going to be able to actually complete any school work to any sort of standard. It's setting him up to fail and it's not acceptable.

Does he have a set one just for him that goes between school and home or can he use any laptop? My school are providing school laptops where possible and labelling with pupils name so only one child is using them and they're not moving between school and home to reduce infection risk.

He has a set one for him that stays in school but they've said he won't be able to have it as it can't be cleaned between uses and another child might touch it, also if he has a problem with it then staff can't sit with him to help him resolve it. At first they did try to say that he couldn't have it because the other pupils aren't going to be allowed additional equipment that would usually be part of lessons such as laptops and they might get jealous that he's still allowed his, that was quickly backtracked upon when I asked how that fit into their SEND policy.