How to set boundaries with manager contacting me in personal time?

[Anonincase]

I work at my main job 26 hours/week (ranges between 21-31 depending on project cycle - shifts termly) and am having a hard time with boundaries.

My manager expects me to work 4 x 12 hour days - start at 8 am with start of day call and regular evening meetings 7-9 pm, always checking in every evening (obvs I work daytimes doing my actual work, hosting external meetings etc). I don't work one set day a week, I work somewhere that day, my manager always contacts me that day for a phone planning. Most weekends she will ring recently saying she was driving to visit inlaws so we can use that two hours to work - it was a Sunday morning.

All staff were given a mental health day last month by ED since covid we've been working extra hours for no extra pay. My manager told me we don't need it and scheduled all day planning meeting that day for our department.

While my manager is a very nice the way she works 24/7 and her expectation others should do the same is v hard. I work this job plus another 15 hours/week at another job. My reviews are v positive, in the last month my manager has received two emails about the difference I've made for two external projects I work on. I'm also a single parent with dc including dc with complex disabilities. That Sunday am call resulted in that dc having a meltdown, with more limited verbal skills change in routine hits v. hard.

My manager does not react well when given boundaries, seen it twice from other depts and was shocked. Yet, I need to set boundaries. In Sept my hours will go down to 21 hours and I want to set boundaries that is 3 days/week not 4 x 10/12 hour days, plus a few hours each weekend. This last year has been hard and I need evenings with my dc. I need more balance for me too.

How would you recommend doing this as a single parent that really needs this job? I feel like I'm stuck between a rock and a hard place.

Btw manager contacts me on personal cell, home phone and home email outside of work hours. It isn't a work phone I can just shut off. And yes, she is also a parent (though older dc than mine, sometimes I feel she's forgotten what it is like - her dc are at Uni).

You need to stick up for yourself, by letting it go on this long she thinks you’re like her. I’m not blaming you as it’s all too easy to think it’ll be a one off and then a pattern emerges!

The next time she phones you out of working hours tell her “sorry I’m not working right now, can we pick this up XXXX when I’m back” one of these should be enough but a couple if needed keeps relations on track.

@FenellaVelour
Of course not, it is not below the minimum wage. This type of conditions are usually the norm at some level of seniority in certain industries, and of course they do come with a good remuneration. I am in City finance, but my best friend is a hospital doctor (part time) and the situation is very similar for her.
There is a freedom of choice, if you don't like it, the door is open and there are many jobs paid by the hour out there.

I would be putting unavailable on my email and not answering the Mobil phone. Get an answer phone for the house phone to select who you want to speak to.
Get her used to being unavailable at certain times. Take control without that conversation if it will be a problem. I would say I am taking up walking for exercise and mental health.

This type of conditions are usually the norm at some level of seniority in certain industries, and of course they do come with a good remuneration.

Well, you say that, but if you're consistently working twice the hours you're paid for, and, not getting the other benefits that would go with your contracted hours not matching your normally worked hours (eg. holiday entitlement), you tend to find the renumeration starts looking a lot less stellar.

I remember taking a job in London, on what from the outside looked like an unbelievable salary.

Trouble was, once I'd paid for the travel, the required clothing (and dry cleaning of the aforementioned), the late nights working that boosted my worked hours by 50% (and that meant I bought lunches and had takeaway for dinner as I had no time at home), the hourly rate and take-home was no better than I'd had at my previous job in a more convenient location.

Headline salary != real-life benefit.

This type of conditions are usually the norm at some level of seniority in certain industries,

True, but I don’t get the sense that this applies to OP given she also needs a second 15-hour job to make ends meet.

@TreestumpsAndTrampolines
All true, that is why I am saying it is a choice. Maybe easier to make if you don't have a family yet, earlier in your career.

@firstmentat i think you’re wrong on this sorry. I’m on 6 figures but never had unscheduled 2 hour calls on a Sunday morning, no way. This may be normal in certain industries at very senior levels but it is FAR from standard and OP should not be soaking it up.

OP you are going to have to stand up for yourself here. You do yourself a massive disservice. Why give all that work for free? Time for what I think the Americans call a “come to Jesus” meeting. You are SO not being unreasonable.

I'm part time, in a team where everybody else is full time, my top tips:

• set your time off as 'out of office' in your office calendar
• if you receive a meeting invite for a time you are off always send a reschedule proposition within your working hours
• when people ask something from you shorty before the end of your day accept the task by mentioning that you will do it 'first thing' the next day

Same as PP, I'm on 6 figures but have never had to work weekends and rarely evenings - never since switching to part time.

Speak to HR, ask for the hours you are meant to work to be written up in a new contract
Never respond to anything from your personal phone/email
On your work email, add a signature that includes your working hours and an automatic “Out of Office” reply that gets sent.

Good luck!

I had this too many moons ago.

This is how I fixed it.

I got a PAYG sim and put it in a crap phone so thats the number my boss had. It was on when I worked and turned off when I wasnt working.

Second, I disconnected my landline and changed my number and didnt give it out.

Third, created another email account, also only checked during work hours.

That solved the problem.

‘This type of conditions are usually the norm at some level of seniority in certain industries’

True, but I don’t get the sense that this applies to OP given she also needs a second 15-hour job to make ends meet.

Exactly what I was thinking, @FenellaVelour - it is much more acceptable if you’re paid a fortune for working at your position in those kinds of industries.

Thank you so much everyone. Such good advice here.

Yes, I'm officially 21 hours, but about 1/2 the year they increase hours for special projects tied to funding. It's a charity. There is no proper HR anymore due to cuts, one director dabbles in it. My manager is a Director so has a lot of autonomy, we are also the smallest department. Our funding is very much tied to our Director as she went for a special grant not related to the rest of the org, so the ED really just lets her get on with it. That means it often feels like we aren't part of the same organization, even though we are. It's an interesting dynamic between them. Friendly but some noticeable resentment at times.

I think immediately I will change landline only a couple people have it anyway, and I will find a way to maybe have a chat the afternoon before my day off and may just say I'm finding with dc I have to turn electronics off, then however hard just not answer. I didn't answer yesterday. V hard tho! I may need to say I have to stick to 21 hours year round, we have a newly qualified worker who I'm sure would like the additional hours and while she couldn't do my job there's some aspects she could do. I really do need the money, but if I can't get balance it would be easier to have three set days than this. I love this job and really don't want to give it up, but I feel suffocated and dread the phone ringing or seeing an email come through on my non working days. She does contact me even the day I work elsewhere, there really isn't a day/time of day she won't get in touch asking about work stuff, to arrange meetings or share an idea.

We had a v hard time before this job due to dc needing a long hospital stay, I really do need this job. I normally work 3 jobs but am down to 2 due to pandemic so there's no ability to lose any more income. It is v hard to worry about loss of job if I say something, it's a big fear. While I don't think my manager is vindictive per se, I do think she is looking for team players as she calls it.

Also I had no idea so many people have been through this. It really helps to know it is a growing issue and something to be aware of. I appreciated all the tips of how you managed it, tho it sounds like many people had to leave those jobs in the end.

Further to the having two phones suggestion, some phones are dual sim. I have a Wileyfox phone which is. I have two sims, that started out for precisely the same reason, a boss who just used to contact me when she thought of whatever it was, regardless of the time.

Just had a thought, could you suggest she employed you full time, since that is apparently what she needs?

I would make a note of the hours you are working and then fix a meeting with your manager and ask to talk about overtime payments. I've worked for several charities and in local government and in all of them did some overtime but I was paid for a full time job and it was never more than 15 hours' overtime a week. It sounds to me as though your manager is competing with the rest of the organisation, perhaps with other senior management, presumably for her own purposes. That really isn't on.

Agree with changing the number at home. I would also get a new mobile line and migrate everyone EXCEPT her to it so that you can switch her off but keep comms open otherwise. The Wiley fox is a good idea actually!

I think you need to deal with the root issue which is her expectations, changing phone no's etc means she is likely to leave voicemails expecting a quick turnaround of a callback or send texts if you turn the voicemails off.

I think you can handle it reasonably & professionally by saying you are at your best on your working days when you can focus on the job in the charity and not your other job/personal life. Suggest that you try set days on each project or if that won't work agree your working days a week in advance. Position it as being best for you & the charity.

Being a people manager is also about caring about staff and their wellbeing, mental & physical. It's not appropriate at all that you are expected to work such long days & so many days per week.

i think the mental health aspects of this are very serious.
it sounds like your manager has a problem.
she does not recognise it, and is dragging you into her disordered way of living and working.
i would say join a trade union.
they have the experience and overview to give advice on the best way to approach this kind of thing. not as a conflict approach, but more as model policies on employees' health, safety, welfare, mental health.
this works in the organization's advantage also.
their employees are likely to be more efficient and productive, as contented, feeling appreciated.
also if this aspect is ignored, the organization may find itself before an employment tribunal, which is very costly in time and preparation alone, as well as adverse publicity affecting fundraising, quite apart from any award that may have to be paid to a badly treated employee.

basically the way this goes is that you manage the situation by changing the numbers and restating the hours that you will be available.

I am afraid that if you are on a salary, not an hourly wage, this is more or less expected

Bollocks is it expected! I have been in salaried roles since I left school in 1972, and in none of those roles was it routinely expected that you are available out of hours. When particular projects involved an element of evening work, I was always able to take TOIL to make up for it.

No employer owns someone 24/7 and this sort of attitude is particularly unfair on women, who are more likely to have caring responsibilities.

Just set your answerphone message to 'You have reached Anonincase. Please leave a message and I'll get back to you during my working hours which are...'

Have a different phone number for non work.

Loads of people do this, it's standard.

I just ignore the phoen when I get those calls

@Casschops

I just ignore the phoen when I get those calls

Yep. That is essentially what it boils down to.