How to set boundaries with manager contacting me in personal time?

[Anonincase]

I work at my main job 26 hours/week (ranges between 21-31 depending on project cycle - shifts termly) and am having a hard time with boundaries.

My manager expects me to work 4 x 12 hour days - start at 8 am with start of day call and regular evening meetings 7-9 pm, always checking in every evening (obvs I work daytimes doing my actual work, hosting external meetings etc). I don't work one set day a week, I work somewhere that day, my manager always contacts me that day for a phone planning. Most weekends she will ring recently saying she was driving to visit inlaws so we can use that two hours to work - it was a Sunday morning.

All staff were given a mental health day last month by ED since covid we've been working extra hours for no extra pay. My manager told me we don't need it and scheduled all day planning meeting that day for our department.

While my manager is a very nice the way she works 24/7 and her expectation others should do the same is v hard. I work this job plus another 15 hours/week at another job. My reviews are v positive, in the last month my manager has received two emails about the difference I've made for two external projects I work on. I'm also a single parent with dc including dc with complex disabilities. That Sunday am call resulted in that dc having a meltdown, with more limited verbal skills change in routine hits v. hard.

My manager does not react well when given boundaries, seen it twice from other depts and was shocked. Yet, I need to set boundaries. In Sept my hours will go down to 21 hours and I want to set boundaries that is 3 days/week not 4 x 10/12 hour days, plus a few hours each weekend. This last year has been hard and I need evenings with my dc. I need more balance for me too.

How would you recommend doing this as a single parent that really needs this job? I feel like I'm stuck between a rock and a hard place.

Btw manager contacts me on personal cell, home phone and home email outside of work hours. It isn't a work phone I can just shut off. And yes, she is also a parent (though older dc than mine, sometimes I feel she's forgotten what it is like - her dc are at Uni).

IS it a work phone? Turn it off outside of contracted hours but you will have to speak with your manager about the fact you're working nearly double the hours.
If you're expected to be on a call evenings then take some time in day. or start late.

she's taking th P.

Your manager needs to learn boundaries - just because she had a spare 2 hours whilst driving to in laws doesn't mean you have.

Or, rather than not answering the phone, pick up and say 'im really sorry but im working for my other role right now, can we catch up xxx (when you are next due in work)' if she, for example, calls at 1pm and you say the above, and she then says 'okay well can we catch up at 9pm tonight/8am tomorrow?' You can say 'sorry, cant, i'll be out with friends/at a friends house' - this works better than 'busy' as you can use it any time of day/night. And then dont answer the phone.

This is what happened in our house this morning:
(DH had booked a day off today as had worked hard last week for a deadline)

The CEO emailed him asking for a slide to use at tomorrow's meeting. DH said he was not working today and he would do it tomorrow or if it couldn't wait then to ask his manager Mrs. W.

CEO said thank you for letting me know, I'll contact Mrs. W.

That's the normal way to do it surely

OP I would contact your ED
( you said "ED" gave you all a mental health day)

and say you would like to take the mental health day on X date as you have not had it yet ( and neither have your colleagues if I read that right)

Good luck OP.

Hi OP - it's really difficult isn't it? I work part time too in a professional role but am not senior enough to command the huge paypackets of those who are higher up and are expected to meet the demands of the role regardless of their contracted hours.

So guess what? My manager also expects me to be available and deliver projects regardless of the number of hours I am actually contracted to work. I have been given a huge project and no additional resources so I am putting in extra hours to do this without extra pay or ability to claim time back. I am however going to reset boundaries once this is over by:

• sticking to my contracted hours
• turning work phone and computer off when I have met my hours for the day
• not being available for meetings with my manager when it suits them and not me
• being realistic about what I can achieve and not delivering if it means I have to work extra hours to do so

I have come to the conclusion that they only sit up and take note if I stop being so reliable - it is their job as a manager to allocate sufficient resources to deliver a project and I am part time. By being so worried about needing a job, and trying to please, I have become a push-over and enough is enough. I expect I am in for some difficult times over the next few months as I try to implement this but I can't leave things as they are. I am resentful and angry that my boss' ambition and workaholic nature is being passed on to me.

Am I right in thinking she is only using your personal email/phones for this contact?

In that case, I'd be tempted to change the landline and email and not give work the new ones. If asked, I'd say I didn't have a home phone (in real life, this is true for me) and that I don't want work stuff going to my perosnal email because it isn't secure.

That just leaves your personal mobile and it may be that you feel work has to have one number to contact you on - so I'd limit it to that but not answer it. If/when questioned about it I'd simply keep saying I was in the shower, was somewhere without a signal, didn't hear the phone, was dealing with my child, was on another call etc. Trying to avoid setting the perception that my mobile was a reliable way to get hold of me off the cuff.

IME people only do what they know works. Once it no longer does, they slowly give up.

I work in a startup, so I'm basically always on duty.

This also means that I can therefore make my own hours.

The alternative to setting boundaries is to timesheet yourself, and when she calls you for 2 hours on a Sunday, take 2 hours off the following day.
If you are contracted for half the hours she is expecting, you need to start tracking what time you're actually spending - it's no good working double hours for no pay.

I do this to a certain extent, as my colleagues are around the world, and I'm senior, so there's an expectation of 'always on', but I need time to live my life too. I have blackout hours from 5:30-8 where I'm just not available (unless an actual emergency).

You do also need to set boundaries too though, it's clear from how she is working. Start by occasionally being unavailable - don't jump to respond to Slack/email/phone if you're busy. If there's something she want's now, tell her you're away from your computer and you'll do it when you're back in 2 hours. If she calls on a Sunday, don't hide that you're with your family - let there be noise in the background that makes it hard for her to have the call/feel guilty for taking you away from it.

You're not saying no, so hopefully she won't melt-down, you're just saying 'not right now' - a bit like training a toddler to not interrupt you when you're talking to someone else.

I am afraid that if you are on a salary, not an hourly wage, this is more or less expected. I am also contracted for the similar number of hours to you, but it directly says in my contract that I have to be expected as and when the business needs me, and up to 48 hours overtimes are unpaid. It is very standard in my industry, part time work is in fact more "flexible schedule" rather than "part time hours".

I agree with others that you need to set clear boundaries.

Buy a cheap payg type phone that can take incoming calls or ask work to provide one for you. You could even make the excuse that something has happened to your personal phone or you are sharing it with another family member etc. One excuse could be that you need to keep your personal phone free at all times because of your disabled son.

Block her number on your persona phone and tell her your land line will no longer be operational. (not unusual, we have a landline purely for internet purposes and don't have a physical phone plugged in, havent had for years)

Set up out of hours messages on your email and phone.

Set your working hours for the week in whatever way is appropriate for your company.

I wprk fpr a family run company (my dad is the boss) and none of this is unreasonable. We have agreed hours when people are on call, and work mobile phones are provided. Work laptops were provided at the start of lockdown.

I would say that because I am only paid for my 26 hours a week I need to financially have a second job or I can’t afford my bills. So I am not available all the time because of that and if you need me to work longer hours than I am currently contracted for then I would much prefer that to my other job but you will need to change my contract.

I don’t mind doing a few free hours but it sounds like your boss is taking the Piss. But you need to be a bit more assertive. Sorry I can’t do a two hour meeting on a day off with no notice as I’m busy.

Ask your manager what she wants to do about overtime going forward as it is not possible to continue to do so much overtime unpaid.
Or if you want some facts before meeting with her ask your HR department the same question.

@LoveSummerNotIcecream

Get 2 mobile phones, 1 for work, 1 for home. Only have your work mobile on during work hours, switch it off outside of this with a voicemail message stating your hours. Do not answer your personal mobile if it’s a withheld number. You could even consider blocking your bosses number on your personal mobile. Set your boundaries and stick to them. In the meantime start looking for a new job.

This.

Email her and state for x weeks I have worked an average of Y hours- over 7 days in each week. This gives me no down time and is way about my hours of z which I am contracted to do. I am only contracted and paid for 26 hours. I will be available Monday -Friday from 9am -12 noon (15 hours) and 2-4pm (10 hours) which is 25 hours -plus two hours at your choice agreed with me before hand -I will not response to emails and phone calls outside of these times. It is unfair of you to demand I work double the hours -with no break on my weekends or evenings. I am happy to do this as a one off. If notice is given or an emergency but not as expected. I have a family and I have a legal entitlement to a home life.
-I'd go through HR but that's the gist of what I'd be telling her

Go to HR. She's off her rocker.

Don't check your emails.
Don't answer your phone to her. Get caller ID for land line.
If she pulls you up, tell her you were out/busy/didn't want to talk to her (if you are brave!).
Ultimately, though it sounds like this is the culture of the workplace, and you will have to accept it or find another job.

"All staff were given a mental health day last month by ED since covid we've been working extra hours for no extra pay. My manager told me we don't need it and scheduled all day planning meeting that day for our department."
Time to go over her head IMO. I'd be contacting her boss and HR pointing this out. She is going to create burnt-out staff, and that will be very expensive for the company. They SHOULD be willing to step in. And of course also pointing out that she contacts you via non-work channels and it's starting to feel like harassment.

I am afraid that if you are on a salary, not an hourly wage, this is more or less expected

No that’s just not true. Most employment contracts will have something about working longer hours where there are business requirements but “business requirements” doesn’t translate as “on the whim of any individual manager regardless of your contracted hours or agreed rate of pay”. In my experience the managers who try to pull this one are the ones who are completely disorganised and are often out of their depth in their role. Too many people seem to put up with this crap, thinking their employers are entitled to do what they like because of some vague wording in their contracts. They’re not!

I have to say I'm expected to be available pretty much around the clock. My industry is like this and people of a certain seniority are expected to check email about once an hour within waking hours even if not "working".

If your industry is anything like mine they would laugh in your face if you said you were "off the clock".

I sympathise, but this is the way of the world nowadays.

You really need to be quite firm with her. She is totally selfish, Just because she is on a long car journey on a Sunday morning and it suits her to work, it doesn't mean it suits you. You should have told her it wasn't possible for you.

Unfortunately you have let her push over you and now it has become normal.

When you write this what exactly do you mean?

My manager does not react well when given boundaries, seen it twice from other depts and was shocked. Yet, I need to set boundaries

I would timesheet for sure. When I have been in similar circumstances I have said I need a 121 about planning, then said something like,

I am now settled into what the role demands and am looking at how to be more effective. As you know my contract is for 26hrs a week with flexible working. I see that I have management meetings x hours per week, which I have been doing on top of my contracted hours as free overtime at non-flexible times, that is at times of someone else's choosing. Now I am up to speed I will not be doing any more unpaid overtime nor working non-flex hours. let the bad news settle

At present I am finding there are X hours per week of update meetings at fixed times, which leaves me with only Y flexy hours for technical work. How do you want to resolve this? Here you are pushing the problem back onto her, which is right because it is her problem. Your contract is your contract. She needs to be afraid of losing you by being too inflexible. She needs to decide what she values more your technical work or long rambling updates - it is up to her where your 26hrs go.

I would start with not answering your manager's calls on the day off and at the weekend. If she says anything, take a deep breath and tell her why.

Then work on the evenings/long days stuff.

It's hard to understand what your configuration of hours/days is. If it's flexible or do whatever needs doing, then that's probably not helping with boundaries either.

Also never give work your personal number! It's too late but why??

What @LoveSummerNotIcecream said. Do this ASAP.

Quick ways you can get the boundaries set now:

1. State your working hours on the bottom of your email signature. In red.

1. Manage your diary - block out “non working time” when you are not meant to work in the day. In Outlook you can set “all day entries” and I’d put in “working 7-7” for example. This sets expectations immediately.

Your boss is quite frankly out of line. Following up in personal email and hounding your phones isn’t on. But to have a case for HR you need to make the first move in pushing back.

Also use your 1:1s to get the expectations set for the week.

Send an agenda for them and put “availability” in there as a recurring point.

Don’t deviate, cave, crumble or do things “just this once” anymore else she will continue to walk over you.

I am afraid that if you are on a salary, not an hourly wage, this is more or less expected. I am also contracted for the similar number of hours to you, but it directly says in my contract that I have to be expected as and when the business needs me, and up to 48 hours overtimes are unpaid

The wording is usually 'from time to time' - if it's happening every week then there is a management issue, and it's not acceptable (and could cause them some legal problems if someone wanted to kick up a fuss)

but it directly says in my contract that I have to be expected as and when the business needs me, and up to 48 hours overtimes are unpaid.

It’s worth noting here that if your extra unpaid hours mean that your overall salary, divided by those hours, is less than the national minimum wage, your company would be breaking the law.