AIBU to ask how you will navigate having children in your home from 4 July?

[Sundiamond]

The 'guidance' suggests we can have a child over from 4 July to play inside.

We've not had anyone here at all throughout the whole of lockdown. We've met people out for walks or in parks.

But my DC are very keen to have children over for playdates - which I do totally understand.

So, now we have to start thinking about whether we need any 'rules' or whatever...DH doesn't want to make all the kids self conscious. They all seem pretty good at social distancing when out etc but he wants them to enjoy play.

I feel nervous about it.

Anyway, any suggestions/thoughts on what others are doing is very welcome. Thanks

We wont be doing it. dc aren't bothered (they just want to hug their grandparents and my 7 year old wants to have his much needed hospital appointment) and dh has diabetes so not worth the risk for us.

So is the current theory that children don't spread the virus to adults?

If adults don't want to catch it, they should stay at home.

Our DC have already sacrificed quite enough.

We won't be doing it either, we've decided to regularly see grandparents instead.
If we didn't live so locally to them though we would have probably sent DS1 back to nursery instead.

@dutchesss - that sounds awful, I'm so sorry. Yes, I have a friend whose had it really badly. Fit as a fiddle before. She's on the 14th week with terrible, dehabillitating fatigue. I don't take any of this lightly, hence being here, trying to see what others are doing.

I totally get the mental health element, the balance of risk and how we're going to have to live alongside Covid for quite some time to come.

Unfortunately, it still doesn't help me make my decision!

What @TheDailyCarbuncle said.

Risk is in everything. Our school has a child severely disabled after a bad bout of measles and I had a friend whose child was hospitalised with chicken pox and almost died. The fact is we have to learn to live with this, and as the Irish school study showed any school "outbreaks" are more likely the fault of an adult that a child. Good hygiene and that'll do.

If I lived my life for "just in case" scenarios, I'd never get out of bed through fear.

If adults don't want to catch it, they should stay at home.
Our DC have already sacrificed quite enough.

Some of us don't have the option of staying at home.

I work in a school and we're currently open to children of keyworkers, vulnerable children and Y10 and 12. A huge amount of work has gone into keeping everyone as safe as possible but we've still had several cases of confirmed covid among staff. A member of SLT caught it, passed it onto his wife and child who was hospitalised and is still experiencing some complications two months on. One of my good friends at work, under 40 and no underlying health issues ended up in ICU. She is a single mum to three boys and has no family, she was terrified they were going to be left with no one. Yes, DC have made sacrifices but so have many adults who do not have a choice to 'stay at home'. I agree that we need to come out of lockdown, we need to get the economy going etc. But the 'i'm alright jack' attitude of some posters on this thread and the fact that people still insist on comparing this virus to the flu is frustrating.

Shielding will not have paused at that point, and even when it does there is still going to be considerable caution advised for contacts with other households.

So not a chance of non-bubble households coming indoors. And if everyone else is mixing indoors, then no-one to bubble with.

I hope that DC who need to mix only outdoors and at a distance (because they ot a household member are shielding or newly deshielded but still advised caution) won't get forgotten

I don’t want to be too specific as it will be outing but I work in Public Health - whilst I agree that we can’t hide forever, the point of social distancing etc is to protect the more vulnerable members of society.

As yet, it is unknown if children are carriers/never get the virus/get if and have no symptoms; statistics suggest that they are mainly asymptomatic and spread by children is limited (hence schools not having major outbreaks, in the main).

However - this is an extremely contagious virus and the risk to the vulnerable is far higher than with chicken pox or seasonal flu or any other illnesses mentioned.

Right now numbers are relatively low. If we all abandon social distancing completely, they potentially won’t remain so. It is vital that we keep infection rates low or this coming autumn and winter could be catastrophic both in terms of the NHS and number of deaths. COVID thrives in low temperatures.

If during the summer months we are all sensible; avoid crowded places, maintain thorough hand hygiene and generally exercise common sense, it is possible for it to be managed throughout the winter.

We need to be mindful that our actions aren’t only to protect ourselves (which if you are low risk is probably not front of mind so you’re happy to abandon social distancing); we’re all protecting more vulnerable people by exercising caution.

Sorry - that was very long.

Bollocks. We know children get and carry the virus. There is absolutely no evidence to the contrary.

@MollieMaeve - that reflects how I feel.

@RuddyP All studies that have been done on rates in children are not large enough to be statistically significant. There is no definitive answer as yet. I have read multiple studies from a wide range of countries and as yet, there is no absolute confirmation of rates of infection/spread in children. You could pick a theory and be able to find research to back it up.

I agree as it happens - my personal opinion is that they get it but they don’t spread it as widely as adults (based on a reasonably large - but still not statistically significant - study into rates in school staff).

You said children may never get the virus and we know that to be categorically untrue. I work in public health too and not as the admin!

My 13 year old got it in March and passed it to me. I’m still poorly, she was ill for 3/4 days. My ds was ill for 2 days, my older teen had no symptoms so not sure if she’s had it or not.

We are currently allowing play dates for our dc in the garden or they can meet a friend for a distanced walk in local park. They are being sensible about it and it’s good for them socially.

Clearly, some children have had the virus. I assumed people reading would be intelligent enough to understand that I meant get it in the same relative population numbers as adults. Perhaps I should have been literal instead of using a train of phrase.

I also don’t work in admin (not that there is anything wrong with that, I have done earlier in my career); I head up a specific division and to be honest am skeptical that you work in Public Health in any capacity but I have no interest in arguing with someone trying to nitpick and start a row on what was a thread in which people were exchanging views respectfully.

Have a lovey evening.

@MollieMaeve - thank you, very well put.

@welcometohell

*If adults don't want to catch it, they should stay at home. Our DC have already sacrificed quite enough.*

Some of us don't have the option of staying at home.

I work in a school and we're currently open to children of keyworkers, vulnerable children and Y10 and 12. A huge amount of work has gone into keeping everyone as safe as possible but we've still had several cases of confirmed covid among staff. A member of SLT caught it, passed it onto his wife and child who was hospitalised and is still experiencing some complications two months on. One of my good friends at work, under 40 and no underlying health issues ended up in ICU. She is a single mum to three boys and has no family, she was terrified they were going to be left with no one. Yes, DC have made sacrifices but so have many adults who do not have a choice to 'stay at home'. I agree that we need to come out of lockdown, we need to get the economy going etc. But the 'i'm alright jack' attitude of some posters on this thread and the fact that people still insist on comparing this virus to the flu is frustrating.

We've reached the point where we are just going to have to accept that some people are going to have a shit time of it.

the point of social distancing etc is to protect the more vulnerable members of society

Its just not a reasonable ask to expect millions and millions of other people to act as collateral damage in this way, when the threat to them is so minimal.

Who asked our consent to this huge, massively damaging social experiment?

We won't be having anyone over.

The kids will probably play out again, but not until I've given blood mid month. And maybe not at all if there's a tiny chance we can stay with family again. Although I think that'll be next year.

@NikeDeLaSwoosh Part of the issue is that we will all be collateral damage if infections rates rise during the autumn/winter. If the NHS becomes overwhelmed and all ‘routine’ treatment is delayed again, the impact on society as a whole will be huge. The number of people who could die of other things due to delayed treatment/lack of availability is enormous.

I completely understand that restrictions are frustrating for everyone and unbearable for a lot of people. The long term impact of social isolation is unknown but likely to be considerable. But - the potential of a completely overwhelmed NHS during the winter is frightening.

Hopefully that won’t happen and we will all be back to a slightly different but almost normal ‘normal’ by then.

I know everyone won’t agree on this so am not at all trying to invalidate or minimise your thoughts - just sharing my perspective.

Agree with @molliemaeve.

I’m not scared of catching the virus myself. I even think my 3 month old would probably be fine even though I’d hate to see her poorly

I am worried about being the link in the chain that ends up with my elderly grandad or my shielding FIL.

If as adults we just do some social distancing, wear a face covering occasionally when needed and just take a little extra care surely that is worth the effort!

And moreover, numbers are low now, elimination seems a big undertaking but I do think it’s a possibility (or would have been) at least up here in Scotland. We need to keep stamping out outbreaks and breaking chains of transmission.

[quote MollieMaeve]@NikeDeLaSwoosh Part of the issue is that we will all be collateral damage if infections rates rise during the autumn/winter. If the NHS becomes overwhelmed and all ‘routine’ treatment is delayed again, the impact on society as a whole will be huge. The number of people who could die of other things due to delayed treatment/lack of availability is enormous.

I completely understand that restrictions are frustrating for everyone and unbearable for a lot of people. The long term impact of social isolation is unknown but likely to be considerable. But - the potential of a completely overwhelmed NHS during the winter is frightening.

Hopefully that won’t happen and we will all be back to a slightly different but almost normal ‘normal’ by then.

I know everyone won’t agree on this so am not at all trying to invalidate or minimise your thoughts - just sharing my perspective.[/quote]
I agree. There are reports that Leicester is about to go into lockdown due to a significant outbreak there. If that happens it will mean disruption for everyone there. So, the minority who decided to do things that have caused the outbreak will affect everyone.

It's clear that the virus hasn't gone away and can very quickly resurge.

Part of the issue is that we will all be collateral damage if infections rates rise during the autumn/winter. If the NHS becomes overwhelmed and all ‘routine’ treatment is delayed again, the impact on society as a whole will be huge. The number of people who could die of other things due to delayed treatment/lack of availability is enormous

The Nightingale hospitals treated fewer than a dozen patients with a capacity of over 3,000 beds.

The NHS was nowhere near being overwhelmed.

The NHS wasn't overwhelmed because it stopped doing almost all routine operations etc. We cannot continue like this or so many people will suffer and die from other causes.

@NikeDeLaSwoosh

Part of the issue is that we will all be collateral damage if infections rates rise during the autumn/winter. If the NHS becomes overwhelmed and all ‘routine’ treatment is delayed again, the impact on society as a whole will be huge. The number of people who could die of other things due to delayed treatment/lack of availability is enormous

The Nightingale hospitals treated fewer than a dozen patients with a capacity of over 3,000 beds.

The NHS was nowhere near being overwhelmed.

Yes, because they stopped all other treatments bar emergencies and secondly, they didn't have, and still don't have, enough staff to run the Nightingales plus the usual hospitals.

The NHS could not cope with a pandemic and run a normal service so if that is the plan in the event of a second wave god help us all.