Hoarder in laws and childcare

[Sunshines21]

Hi there

I’m about to return to work after maternity, the plan was always for nursery 4 mornings a week and my in laws who live locally agreed to look after my baby 2 afternoons a week.
However with Covid the nursery is closed and after much phoning round nurseries where we are most are still either closed or only taking children who have two key worker parents.
Our in laws had a chat with my husband and offered to take our baby to their place while we work at home (we have a small flat).
However I’ve never been in their house due to my in-laws hoarding. My mil is really embarrassed so doesn’t want anyone to see. My husband and his brother used to be welcome but neither have seen inside in over a year. I don’t think it’s a safe environment for a baby and have asked to see inside prior to agreeing if my baby can go there. My in-laws have unfortunately responded defensively. My FIL actually spoke to my husband on his own after and reduced him to tears. We both feel awful about the situation but I just can’t agree it’s suitable for my baby. The alternative would be me muddling along with work at home and childcare and they could maybe take him out in the afternoon so I can get along with some work. However they are so furious that they are now not wanting to look after the baby at all. I feel I’ve caused a bit of a rift, I’m wondering if I’m being unreasonable?

This is a problem of their making and they probably know it, it's easier to blame you.
Id look around again at nurseries.

If they wont let you in , then it's a no to minding your DC. A very hard no.

There's two things going on here OP.

The hoarding, and the challenge to PiL way of thinking.

I work with patients, mainly older, after a fall, stroke, or other serious impact on mobility. Rehab to get home with package of care, or into residential home, etc. Others in the team will visit & assess patient's home. Hoarding will delay/prevent discharge home. Where patient is medically fit and insists in going home, we have to inform the fire brigade.

So just think that through for a minute. At every check so far with a midwife, health visitor, nurse, Dr related to your baby, you will have been asked 'do you have a working smoke alarm, battery and mains connected, in your home?' Every nursery and childminder will have to show they have fire safety training, and fire safety equipment as part of their certification.

And now imagine the conversation you'd be having with your health visitor, gp, nurse, midwife etc explaining why you put your baby in a known fire risk? Or the care of someone who chooses to live in that risk, withholding access to loved ones?

That is not a choice. It's a safeguarding decision. If you don't make it now, you'll find others make it for you.

It's also not a choice a truly loving or respectful father would make of his son.

That's my second point. You reference fil point about your husbands grandmother's hoarding. So this is 'the norm' for the family. Yet your husband has broken free. His father sees this as a rejection of their values, codes of behaviour. Yet he himself must know they have crossed a line, by refusing others access. His behaviour is erratic because his relationship with his son - who is challenging the status quo, standing up for himself, his wife, his own new family - is destroying your fils shaky authority.

In the past, cash has kept your dh in line. The classic 'all we've done for you'. Guilt tripping now re baby. Which will very soon become more 'All we've done for you'

Honestly, I think you've had a lucky escape for childcare. Find a better, long term solution. Suffer the pain now whilst everyone is, your employer will have to deal with it.

Time to define the boundaries for PiL. Protect your baby, don't let the weirdness go another generation, and help your dh continue to heal now he's started standing up for himself.

They refuse to let you in state very firmly that's your choice and find an alternative

You don't mess around when it comes to your child

Agree with others on the thread about checking again with nurseries and also local childminders - lots of people aren't going back to work, so quite a few have spaces around here now. Or do you have friends you could swap with, or could you have someone with their own older child come as a nanny for a reduced rate? (Note that you cant let your child be cared for in their home for money unless they are a qualified childminder).

TheVanguardSix

Very powerful post, what strength you've shown your kids, despite your own pain. for you

Having a baby in the house requires a higher standard of cleanliness and safety, not a lower. My friend has her beloved grandson for the day once a week minimum, and before this became regular, she was "babyproofing" her home, already clean and tidy by adult standards, socket guards, breakables out of reach, buffers on table corners, etc etc...... and not many grownups check all new objects by popping them in their mouths....
I once saw a TV programme where a lady who had let the housework slide uncontrollably was impelled to ask for help for the very reason that she wanted to have her granddaughter visit her at home, and with support, she achieved this win-win.
It sounds as if your parents-in-law are far more entrenched, and although this has touched a raw nerve, they will resolutely refuse help.
I'd concentrate on supporting your husband; he's broken away, and come so far in refusing to endanger his child, receiving verbal abuse for his pains. Did FIL think he was so in thrall that he would support them, rather than you? They need help, but that is not your responsibility; take good care of the happy little family you have created.

My ils weren't hoarders but their home wasn't safe.. Windows always open upstairs, lots of prescription meds on tables, bleach bottles open as mil couldn't use a child proof top so had to be left open at the side of the loo.. Told her politely the dc couldn't be there without us.. Oh she was quite sure toddler ds would never touch pills or go upstairs.
And don't get me started on the 10 x6 pond in the garden. Took years to convince fil to put a grill over it..

They are too embarrassed to let their own children in? That tells you more than enough. They are not fit for looking after a baby, they don't look after themselves. On no account should you entrust the care to them, don't allow it.

You have to look into other nurseries/childminder. There’s absolutely no chance you’d ever let your child go to a nursery that wouldn’t let you in and wouldn’t do any settling in! You have to be firm in defence of your child, it’s your role as a mother.

It’s awful that your FIL made your DH cry. That’s horribly manipulative.

If their house is too embarrassing to them to let even THEIR OWN CHILDREN in, there is just no way it is safe for a small child. Think about how carefully you child proof an area for a toddler - nothing that can be pushed/pulled over, nothing small enough to be swallowed within reach, breakables out of reach. Even if it’s a very clean house, I don’t believe that someone that’s hoarding can meet those requirements, certainly not one that won’t let anyone in - it must be pretty bad. My MIL is a hoarder, and I have seen her house (my DH didn’t want me to see before we were married in case I ran a mile, but I’ve seen it since as he has to go in sometimes to make it safer for her and I’ve been with him). She insists that it’s fine and that it’s not unhealthy. While I’m sure there are hoarders that manage to keep things hygienic, the majority don’t! She insisted that it was just paper and clothes, so it wasn’t dirty. With some digging, we unearthed maggots (LOTS), dead mice, a flock of butterflies (weird and pretty!) and what may once have been a cat. Food and medicines in a cupboard that she hadn’t been able to access for years, and they were 20 years out of date. You PIL might not be this bad but you DON’T KNOW. It’s just completely out of the question.

Do not leave your child with them under any circumstances. It could well be a safeguarding issue if you did. In fact I'd be suprised if it wasn't. I used to work for q cleaning business that specialised in hoarder houses, and it is something that gets worse with age. Also, every single hoarder I have every spoken to, and there are many, will say their house is safe and clean. I can assure you that this is not the case.

As some else said can they come to you and baby sit at your house?

Some years ago, Jasmine ( sorry forgotten surname, TV presenter) made a TV programme with and about her hoarder mum. Mum had an unmanageable amount of stuff. A bad, long term, hoarding problem. They moved everything that belonged to mum from the house to an empty airplane hangar. ' Now you can see everything mum, you can choose what you want to keep'. Bewildered mum looked at her daughter, as if daughter was deranged, and said "but I want to keep it all". Left Jasmine in tears but also, after so many years of experiencing it, saying she wondered why she had thought it might make a difference. This is how it is OP. Don't take your child there. Under no circumstances leave her in their care in their home. Unthinkable.

I've watched the hoarder programmes, so I could understand my hoarder Sister better and to spur me in to declutter when I developed Chronic Fatigue.

There's always dangerous mould and dust. I don't mean ordinary dust, but the type that builds up over the years and becomes dangerous to respiratory health. Adults might cope but a baby shouldn't be in that environment. They especially shouldn't while a respiratory virus is going around.

Hoarding is passed down, so I'd limit contact in their home, or it starts to be viewed as a normal coping mechanism. Like any addiction, children don't need a daily example of it.

You've got to stand your ground. My DD did, in regards to my Sister's car. Unless there's space and nothing that can injury the children, if in a crash. Sometimes we have to unpack it and she puts it back, after the day out. But she says it's helped her to create space. I gave her the Marie Kondo books, which don't go deep enough for a hoarder. But they changed her thinking from getting rid of things, to what she wants space in her life for.

We've also never been to my Sister's house. The first time my children will, is when she dies and they inherit. Which is quite sad.

YANBU at all.
Your PILs sound very unreasonable and manipulative, it's all very dysfunctional.
Tbh I think you've had a lucky escape as I don't think it would have worked for them to do any childcare, even just 2 afternoons a week.

"However with Covid the nursery is closed and after much phoning round nurseries where we are most are still either closed or only taking children who have two key worker parents."

Are you in England or elsewhere? Nurseries in England have been allowed to open since 1st June so I would find it strange if you couldn't find a single one that was open and could take your child. Failing that you should look into childminders. They're probably in demand (especially if no local nurseries are available) but it's worth a try). And if you can't find a childminder then you could look into a temporary nanny or babysitter. Failing that you and DH will just have to manage with one of you taking (unpaid) parental leave or reducing/changing working hours to manage work and childcare around each other.

Omg @crazychemist that’s absolutely awful and quite nausea inducing

Sounds really hard op, especially on your DH, but I agree with you. I would not be sending my child to be looked after in a home I wasn't allowed in. I would be repeating this every time the subject comes up.

The only alternative is they come and look after your baby in your house. Would they agree to that?

Never send a child somewhere you can't visit. No way. You're always responsible for whatever happens. If you literally don't know the risk it's not worth it. Can you find a child minder as I believe they are able to open?

Look for other nurseries and definitely you have made the right decision to say it is not a suitable place.

I'd hope it would force them to face up to their hoarding, but have my doubts it will.

Ynbu. I hope you manage to see them in your home but you can't send a baby if you can't go in.

If your FIL is that aggressive with your DH I wonder what life is like for your MIL.

The alternative would be me muddling along with work at home and childcare and they could maybe take him out in the afternoon so I can get along with some work.

What does your DH do? Could he not take a turn muddling along with working at home and childcare, esp given you've just taken 12(?) months out of your job to look after your kids. Isn't it his turn? Could he take a month of unpaid parental leave, or a sabbatical? Could he start burning annual leave at 1/2 day each day to cover the mornings, and his parents take LO out in the afternoons as you suggest?

The situation is changing so rapidly at the moment, that nursery places might ease up in a few weeks. There's no reason why you have to be the one juggling it all.

@oldstripeyNEWname1
Everything you said is spot on.

No chance, find a childminder with a nice safe clean house.

YANBU

With hoarding generally comes a lot of hazards and dust. Neither are safe for an adult, least of all a baby or child of any age.