To think all this left wing vs right wing stuff is escalating?

[rubydoobydoo]

I've always been of the opinion that I don't care about a person's politics, all I care is if they're a twat or not. I've always had non-twatty friends with various political leanings which has never been an issue but recently things seem to have changed and you either have to be one or the other - and it's turning previously non-twatty people into compete twats!

I don't identify as either, but recently it suddenly seems to be causing massive divisions with lots of people when it just never came up previously!

Has it always been like this and I've been living in a world of my own until now? It's like the right wing people think all left wing people are one block who think exactly the same about everything and vice versa and I just don't get it?

I'm probably not articulating well here but I've seen so many arguments lately that I'm sure never would have happened about ten years ago and society seems to be getting so much more divisive.

I've always been of the opinion that I don't care about a person's politics, all I care is if they're a twat or not.

I've always been of the opinion that it's sometimes a person's politics that makes them a twat!

But yes, there is an increasing push for people to be marked down as side A or side B with no wiggle room. People want to make Brexit a solely left/ right debate when it isn't- there were fervent leavers on the left and passionate remainers on the right. People think that because your opinion on trans issues is one thing that they know what your opinion is going to be on others. In fact there was a (shit) meme recently about how if you were anti lockdown your opinions on other issues would be obvious. It stuck with me because I had an opinion on lockdown which according to the meme would mean I held certain other opinions that I am known among my friends for vocally not holding .

I cannot imagine ever voting for a centre right or right wing party, I just can't, it goes against so much that I value and believe, but that doesn't mean I agree with my fellow left wingers on everything or that there will never be a rightist idea or politician I agree with. Just because I fervently agree with, say, Corbyn's views on how the welfare state should be that I am also in agreement with his position on how the Party should deal with anti Semitism; the fact that I despise Margaret Thatcher as an individual and politician and believe she caused immense harm and set in place policies we are still suffering the effects of today does not mean I cannot recognise her strengths and that she did a lot to get environmental issues onto the mainstream political agenda.

Sorry, this is becoming a right wibble.

Just because I fervently agree with, say, Corbyn's views on how the welfare state should be does not mean that I am also in agreement with his position on how the Party should deal with anti Semitism

Oh, and just because I find it really really interesting and from some conversations upthread it looks like others do too- lots of people have considered alternatives to capitalism other than communism and wiki is an OK starting point if you want to look at that: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post-capitalism

Isn’t it amazing that self proclaimed chest beating progressives are critical of capitalism and like to tell us about how Ebola be exploitative the system is. They have this privilege simply by virtue of being part of this system. Wonder if they would have permission or even the resources to rage against the system if they lived in a left wing system. Bite the hand that feeds you, right?
The privileges we enjoy are built on the risk taking, wealth creating talents of the few. An no, majority workers do not create wealth, they do as they are told to keep the system moving, no more valuable than any automated machine could perform. Wealth is not crafted by hard labour, it is created by big ideas and the inclination to act on them. What equality do the hard left want? They want everyone to be equally poor. Beware, hard left have shown themselves to be dangerously inept time and again, all over the world. Now they are being dangerously deceptive too by pretending to shut down anyone who speaks against their ideology.

@Iwalkinmyclothing

Just because I fervently agree with, say, Corbyn's views on how the welfare state should be does not mean that I am also in agreement with his position on how the Party should deal with anti Semitism

Exactly. I have always voted labour except when Tony Blair was leader. I agree with a lot of Corbyn's policies, but I disagree with how he handled anti semitism in the party. According to some on MN, it's impossible to hold both positions.

Sorry not read whole thread, but agree that expecting people to fall neatly onto one side of a left-right polarity isn’t realistic. The reactions to the sacking of RLB yesterday demonstrate how divided the LP is and that’s only one example among many. It sometimes seems an impossible position to say you like both Corbyn and Starmer, or to support the latter without being ‘accused’ of being Tory. It feels a bit artificial that we only have two big parties, neither representing one holistic view.

It sometimes seems an impossible position to say you like both Corbyn and Starmer

If you ever are in the mood for a really nasty argument, drop into one of the Labour subs on reddit and say just this. Hours of screeching commences and if you're very lucky someone will bring up Militant and Derek Tatton and that argument can be had for the millionth time. Excellent diversion when you want an excuse to just yell at people online :)

It's the way people think, fed by the way the media presents things. Look at big issues, like climate change or BLM protests. In the mainstream media there is no option for a debate on these issues - you either think the "correct" way or are treated as a dangerous, extremist idiot. You can't even countenance the idea that there is an alternative to the "correct" manner of thinking.

This leads people to be less willing - and less able - to question things or accept that there might be alternative opinions to their own. The more they see things being polarised into "right" and "wrong" the more they feel that this is the case with every issue. The less capable of seeing shades of grey in any situation they become.

@SchrodingersImmigrant

If you really want to see people from far left froth, just say you think there could be some criminal checks done on EU immigrants and some should not be allowed free movement as non criminals do (not as strict as Australia, just for serious and repetitive stuff), while you yourself are an EU immigrant😂😂😂 Trying not to offend the immigrant while accusing them of being racist nazi tory seems to be really hard job😂

Or the Polish bloke I knew who told me he was leaving the UK because his street had filled up with Romainians and they were lazy feckless works bastards

workshy.

Wonder if they would have permission or even the resources to rage against the system if they lived in a left wing system

I doubt it. Take the former East Germany for example where citizens certainly weren’t allowed to publicly protest.
The network of Stasi informers was so vast that no one knew who they could trust and if anyone was reported for privately criticising the regime then they could face a prison sentence.
For more ‘serious’ crimes like an accusation of helping someone escape to the West could result in having your children taken away and put into care.

But this is the problem, isn't it? People from the right think the country is too left. And people from the left think the country is too right.

It's all about perspective.

@TheRealMcKenna

Twitter and YouTube algorithms have a lot to answer for pushing viewers down polarising rabbit-holes.

Both originate in the USA, as does a lot of this polarised, binary thinking.