Headteacher says I can't go on holiday

[Scuzzymummy]

Ok so this might not be a problem in a few weeks and please please believe me when I say I have done everything possible to ensure my pupils have had my attention and expertise when needed during lockdown. I have recorded lessons, marked work, given feedback etc... I know lots on MN have some very strong feelings about teachers at the moment 😬.
So I have a holiday abroad booked for the 18yh August. I have been hanging on and hanging on to see if we can go. We are so desperate for a break- who isn't- but my headteacher has emailed today and said that of quarantine measures are still in place in September then holidays at the end of August need to be cancelled. What do I do, I know I need to be back in September, god knows I want to have actually children in front of me not a bloody screen. But if we cancel we will loose hundreds and hundreds plus the holiday. We can't change the date, my husband is not able to change. Help!

If your school will have children who are shielding could you offer to continue online teaching/support during quarantine (I don’t know shield rules for children in September in England.)

It’s not a race to the bottom, no. I just personally don’t think 2 weeks additional leave is guaranteed. Sure, it would be nice but to be honest I feel like it’s unreasonable to expect it.

I also don’t think it’s safe to travel at the minute and insurance is currently void.

Some of the opinions on this thread are very unprofessional and they wouldn’t last 5 mins in the public sector.

It is not just teachers, many employers are not willing to give extra leave either paid/ unpaid or facilitate WFH for people who choose to go on holidays if quarantine is still in place. Considering the tough position that many businesses are in this is not unreasonable.

Again, so people in a range of jobs should be routinely directed to work beyond their contracts and then roll over in gratitude for this situation? They should be totally fine with having their annual leave removed and not getting it back at all?

No wonder we're where we're at as a country when some workers are falling over themselves to undermine their own position and throw fellow workers under the bus.

BenScalesIsAGod but quarantining wouldn't be two weeks additional leave in a job where someone can wfh.

Which teachers can, as we've just seen for 3 months.

The insurance issue is separate, although it does impact on decisions to take holidays or not.

And the posters suggesting hiring a cottage in Wales instead... unless you're from Wales and the cottage is round the corner from where you live, the Welsh govt are asking people not to visit at the moment, with no indication of when this restriction will be lifted.

How is it working beyond their contracts? The employee is asking for 2 weeks extra leave, the employer isn’t taking leave away?

They can’t teach from home if students are in school though.

It’s not a race to the bottom, no. I just personally don’t think 2 weeks additional leave is guaranteed. Sure, it would be nice but to be honest I feel like it’s unreasonable to expect it.
It's not 2 weeks additional leave.
It's responding to government guidelines during a pandemic for a holiday that was booked months ago.
The OP could work from home and run elements of the remote learning or long term curriculum planning whilst in quarantine.
Of course if her head wanted to insist it's unpaid then she's well within her rights not to work.

How is it working beyond their contracts?The employee is asking for 2 weeks extra leave, the employer isn’t taking leave away?
The OP is a teacher.
Teachers are directed for 195 days a year.
190 of that is term time
5 days are insert days.

The OP has already worked through half term and Easter (which are not in the 195 days).
The head seemed quite happy to take this because it's an unprecedented situation, but is then deciding that the unprecedented situation doesn't equal goodwill in the other direction.

Some public sector employers seem very unprofessional - they can't just make up rules which contravene union advice or expect free work from teachers at other times, without a willingness to be accommodating of things which are beyond the staff's control.

If quarantine is still in place then it's wholly reasonable for your head to say you must be in work on the first day back so holidays overseas need to be taken accordingly. BUT things are changing, quarantine could be dropped (completely or for Europe) or we could be back to square one and foreign office saying no trips abroad. If you can't move it without cost I would hang on for now.

Someone posted the union advice. Which basically says OP can go. Personally I’d base my decision on safety factors and how much I value my job / relationship with the head.

Apparently it’s everyone else bases their decision on their ‘entitlement’. It’s up to you how far you want to push it OP but maybe just hold on til August. I think travel will be easier then as lots will have this problem / similar issues.

Schools were open during Easter and May HT, so some teachers did lose their leave. However, I don't know any who have been in school "full time" for the duration as PP asserts. I'm involved with the local Association of Secondary Heads, (which has been very active during this time!) so I know what's gone on in all the local schools. Yes, work has been very different for most, yes lots of work has been done from home but those in school have been on rotas and those at home haven't worked as many hours as usual. Even the heads admit, that whilst it's been very stressful and hardwork, exams were particularly tricky, they aren't putting in as many hours.

We very much appreciate what our staff has done but it doesn't help anyone to insist that they've all worked harder than ever. People have seen their FB!

It's "lose" not loose.

Some public sector employers seem very unprofessional - they can't just make up rules which contravene union advice or expect free work from teachers at other times, without a willingness to be accommodating of things which are beyond the staff's control.
This
Goodwill goes both ways.

Unless you're on Mumsnet and work in a school, in which case you should be utterly grateful you have a job, be happy for your contract to be ignored selectively and not stick up for yourself and your conditions because that proves teachers think they work harder than anyone else.

I've not read the whole thread so apologies. However, just had this with my DH. We booked flights the day lockdown was announced (we actually transferred them from April flights because obviously we knew the April holiday was off) . Return flight is back 31st August, school starts 1st Sept. When we booked, 'lockdown' had been announced for 2 weeks and there was no mention of quarantine. Plus, these weeks are when my summer leave had been signed off. DH head was ok...he just explained we had followed advice, it was all pre quarantine and we can't go any other time due to my work. Head had now said he is fine to work from home if quarantine is still in place. You booked so long ago and you did nothing wrong. I think the quarantine will have ended by then, but if not and head is insisting you can't go, I would speak to your union rep.

Realistically the UK will probably be in full and total lockdown again because a massive massive second wave is coming your way. The UK didnt flatten the curve and have handled it so badly that you are probably on course for another huge spike in cases and deaths.
But ya you worry about your holiday.

Yes I really don't think this will be an issue in August- if it is most holiday companies and airlines will have gone bust . We're in a similar situation- DS due to go back to school 10 days after we get back, its only a couple of hours on the Thursday and Friday, but he has missed so much that I don't want him to miss a minute. I guess we could pay for the test for him a couple of days before he is due back.

BenScalesIsAGod it's not clear what will be happening in terms of children actually being in school in September tbh.

And depending on a teacher's contract, it may be claimable as TOIL in lieu of the three weeks of holiday that many teachers have worked through this year.

In OP's situation, I would try to postpone and suck up a bit of a financial hit, but I can totally understand why anyone would be reluctant to think about not having their desperately needed break.

Keepyourginup That's similar to my school. Our head is a good one who understands that there's give and take on all sides.

I can see this from both sides to be honest. It would be really shit if you missed out on your holiday especially as it's not insured so it's completely understandable you want to go. Also the fact you booked it way before the outbreak. And the fact it's a stupid rule for most countries as our infection rate is higher than most other countries so it doesn't really increase the risk.

It's also completely understandable that after x weeks break, school do not want to facilitate you working from home for a further two weeks given that all children are meant to be back then. I can see how they don't want to set a precedent as this could then happen with lots of teachers after every holiday or teachers asking to wfh more often for any reason. And I think the general consensus is that even when schools have done a great job, remote teaching for children is no substitute for face to face learning.

And it's not the insurers fault either, they couldn't have really anticipated a situation where employers were telling employees what to do in their own time.

It's just a shit situation all round and there is no easy answer. Ultimately I'd probably value a decent relationship with my employer over a holiday in the long term so probably wouldn't go but in the short term I'd be gutted.

We are in a similar position and just waiting to see at the moment

Venue20 you're right that UK govt has handled the pandemic spectacularly badly, but at the moment, the data doesn't suggest that a second wave is on the way.

You seem almost gleeful about the prospect though, which isn't pleasant for those of us who have had to live through the shitstorm that is Johnson's incompetence and have lost loved ones.

Venue20 but probably won't hit until September so OP and perhaps I might still be able to go on holiday.

You are a teacher and you can't spell lose??

You need and deserve this holiday. Hold tight, there’s a good chance the quarantine won’t be an issue.

I can see how they don't want to set a precedent as this could then happen with lots of teachers after every holiday

Oh , of course it wouldn't! When is there going to be another time when a holiday would necessitate another two weeks away for so many people? Teachers and other employees aren't going to stay in quarantine for shits and giggles!