There’s now a strong chance schools will NOT go back full time in September

[Redolent]

Schools have been set up to fail by the careless summer relaxation of lockdown.

• No mandatory face masks in shops and indoors. The UK is an international outlier here.
• Reduction of 2m rule to 1m which is basically the normal distance people talk to each other. Factor in alcohol and social distancing is now non-existent in pubs and restaurants. Oh, and nobody cares about the 1m ‘plus’ bit. They just hear 1m.
• Reopening of too many indoor venues at once, including things like places of worship which are high-risk for transmission anyway.
• Bypassing the idea of social bubbles straight to unlimited two household meet-ups indoors. You can visit different pubs/restaurants over the weekend and go inside multiple households throughout the week. Zero attempt to break chain of transmission.
• No functioning app and poor test/trace system (see SAGE’s Stephen Reicher on the latter)
• ‘Pausing’ of shielding in August

All of the above will led to a rise in cases.

Meanwhile:

• Shit is absolutely hitting the fan in the United States, India, Pakistan, Mexico, Saudi Arabia, other parts of the Middle East. Our quarantine policy is so terrible it may well be scrapped anyway. Will see more imported cases.
• The weather will turn cooler and allow perfect conditions for the virus to thrive

So by end of August/early September, our cases and hospitalizations will be rising significantly. Flu season will kick in. The NHS is already groaning under the weight of its huge 10million waiting list - another shut down cannot happen. A full time return to school under those circumstances will be untenable. Blended learning will see a turn as will part-time schooling.

YABU: we need to get the economy going in all its forms as quickly as possible, and schools will also go back with no issues.
YANBU: you cannot have things both ways. This summer relaxation is setting us up for an autumn/winter spike and more part-time schooling.

@Oaktree55

France is back save for last three years of school. To all pupils. They have reduced distancing to the "maximum possible" that allows all pupils to go back, ie do your best chaps.

Hasn't this been done to death yet?

Yeah, l used to work in a factory, so I’ve kind of been in one

I can’t disclose about exams, but everything is under discussion. I only know about my subject, but QCA are working on it all

Aren't you a little ray of sunshine?

France is back save for last three years of school. To all pupils. They have reduced distancing to the "maximum possible" that allows all pupils to go back, ie do your best chaps.

Germany is back too isn’t it? Priority over restaurants which I would appreciate.

Do unions get involved?

When Texas reopened end of April/start of May, they were making many of the same points here about the importance of getting the economy going. Which is valid, but they didn’t do it sensibly. Barely any masks for a start, and bars/restaurants were packed out. Indoors, which is the highest risk.

But the US never really had it under control and haven’t flattened the curve, nor did they have an exit strategy, with testing patchy at best. Significant numbers ignored lockdown. Not a good example to follow.

Scotland have called schools back full time in early August. If the science didn’t support that, I guarantee Sturgeon wouldn’t do it.

@Mascotte

Aren't you a little ray of sunshine?

Jovial leadership and a devout belief in ‘British common sense’ hasn’t exactly served the UK well in this pandemic so far

@MintyMabel

When Texas reopened end of April/start of May, they were making many of the same points here about the importance of getting the economy going. Which is valid, but they didn’t do it sensibly. Barely any masks for a start, and bars/restaurants were packed out. Indoors, which is the highest risk.

But the US never really had it under control and haven’t flattened the curve, nor did they have an exit strategy, with testing patchy at best. Significant numbers ignored lockdown. Not a good example to follow.

Scotland have called schools back full time in early August. If the science didn’t support that, I guarantee Sturgeon wouldn’t do it.

I’m very curious to see what sturgeon will do re: the 2 metre rule, face masks etc.

Unions are already expressing concerns about Scottish school plans

Just because Boris tells us we can now do all these things does not mean people are going to do it, id say at least 60% of the UK are cautious and who ever is not well on their head be it!

I will be keeping 2M distance and wearing a mask in busier shops, will not be going to any of the places that can open either or taking DC on a park...

I understand the economy needs to start rolling again but unfortunately I will not be going to help with that when it is not necessary!

Children are very low risk.
They all need to be back in school, for their own benefit and so that their parents can go back to work.
This should have happened sooner.

All the other relaxations are less important than getting children back into school.

I think the 1m rule will be difficult. However, it's been the norm in many other countries and has been recommended by the WHO.

I totally agree, OP. People are sooooo concerned about the kids and then the next minute desperate to relax the 2m rule and run out to the pub, even though it will probably jeopardise their children's chances of getting back to full time education. It's very short sighted.

A factory will have social distancing in place, and facilities for handwashing

Schools don’t

Yeah but schools wont be kept at a colder than average temperature with limited natural light unlike food processing plants so the virus wont linger on surfaces for as long. Plus, I know children are noisy, but they don't tend to shout down the ear of the child sat right next to them during general conversation which is something you do do in a noisy factory so potentially expelling more droplets (masks only provide limited protection).

TheEmojiFormerlyKnownAsPrince

Do they at least recognise the inequalities in provision since March?

I know a head teacher who said that they may remove some content from exams, but surely this would be problematic as schools all teach topics in different orders and it wouldn’t work for languages or maths anyway.

I have a DC doing A-level geography and they’ve already missed the coursework trip / independent research module this term that should have been worth 20% of the final grade (I think).

MiddlesexGirl
Children are very low risk.

You are aware that the science on this is patchy at best.

but they don't tend to shout down the ear of the child sat right next to them

They genuinely do!

I am not suggesting factories aren't higher risk - they plainly are- but ventilation and temperature control in schools is woeful.

[quote nicenames]@Oaktree55

France is back save for last three years of school. To all pupils. They have reduced distancing to the "maximum possible" that allows all pupils to go back, ie do your best chaps. [/quote]
For 2 days!!!!!

Do unions get involved?

Yes, marsha. Why do people think teaching unions are unique to the UK. They are , and have been, very vocal in France, in Denmark, in Germany and, very specifically, in Sweden.

Piggy Christ a simple question. I didn’t say they were unique asking for information. As you do on mn. People are so bloody irritating.

I’d like to hear more about how France got around those vocal unions, and other countries.

They shout, spit, kiss, high-five, cough, sneeze, scream, sing, squeal, often whilst hugging each other.

Can you get closer than that?

I can’t say about what’s happening with exams. I don’t know, l just know that it is being discussed and constantly reviewed.

I’m really concerned about my exam classes, and year 9 into 10 too. But l think it will be sorted somehow. I’m sure it will!

Sorry marsha. I guess I second guessed why you were asking.

I'll answer your question again.

Yes, they do. Teachers are in unions in every country I know of.

It's absolute craziness. I work in infectious diseases research (some of it related to COVID) and I can't get my dc back to school to actually do my job (I've been having to work from home since mid-March to homeschool instead of actually collecting data). There are so many of us carrying out really important work that does not classify us as 'key workers' but we're drowning. I also have students of my own who need to be taught and who need pastoral care. We are expecting to be teaching and supervising students (I'm a uni lecturer) but it's almost impossible to do without some sort of childcare support event though our sector is open. I don't know how they expect the rest of the economy to 'open' when many people can't actually get to work. I say this as someone with actual professional expertise in how infectious diseases spread.

France is famed for its vocal unions. Just as in the UK, a government can choose to squash them, ignore them or listen to them.

There has been quite a lot of articles about it.

I do think there is a belief that in every other country teachers and children went skipping beatifically back into schools. It's simply not true, There has been a lot of unease, hopefully unfounded.

Right little Ray of sunshine, aren't you OP

Will people please stop the personal attacks on OPs in this way!

"I don't like what you are saying so I'll say "right little ray of sunshine" in a nasty way".

If you don't like the argument, argue against. This is the second thread where I've seen this today.