to think that people don't realise how tough it is being a GP?

[naima99]

My dad is a GP. He used to love his job, got home at a reasonable time and had more time to spend with his patients.

Now, he regularly gets to work at 7am and leaves at 9:30pm. He has no time for lunch a lot of the time. He hates that he doesn't have the time he used to have for his patients. He gets tonnes of abuse when he's running late but isn't allowed to say that he's late because his last patient was having a suspected heart attack in front of him, or that he had a child in front of him with undiagnosed diabetes whose life was in danger etc. He's lost so many staff members because they're all fed up. He has no life outside of work because he is working on the weekends as they're so short staffed.

He knows so many doctors in the same position.

Now I'm not claiming that GPs are heroes or deserve any more than the rest of us, but I hear them being slated so so much.

People get angry that they can't get an appointment, that the GP only let them talk about two medical conditions in a 10 minute appointment, that google told them something different so the GP must be wrong which results in complaints or anger directed towards them. I was on a conference call the other day when my colleagues randomly started slaying GPs and them not seeing people face to face during covid saying they need to 'man up'

I don't know if IABU to think that a lot of people don't quite understand that appointments in the surgery are such a small part of being a GP, and that it is a pretty gruelling job at times. Maybe I am just being protective over my dad as I can see him falling apart in front of me.

Does anyone agree or AIBU?

Iwalkinmyclothing, I don't think GPs are relatively well paid. A hospital consultant is well paid but it takes years to reach consultant status, years of long hours and relatively low pay; one hospital doctor said the only advantage was you didn't have time to spend it so could save more!
GPs are not well paid, other professions earn far more, eg a surveyor could easily earn double the salary of a GP.

A GP wants to be a GP, likes the job, makes a difference; fair enough, but that's no reason to take advantage of them.

I am a parent of 3, & I can honestly say that it's unlikely any of them would be alive today were it not for the support and care of GP's over the years. In addition as a long term mental illness patient, its the GP's who provide my day to day care.

GP's are in my opinion, the mainstay of the NHS. Without them, I don't think that the NHS could operate, so, please thank your parents and partners for all that they do. As for salaries, no salary can begin to pay for the services that you provide.

They get paid a fortune though, so there’s no need to work long hours. Presumably they could work part time and still earn as much as a normal full time job.

Yes - that's why there's a staffing shortage. The money's so good most GPs only work 2-3 days a week.

PMSL at 'The money's so good most GPs only work 2-3 days a week'.

Laugh away, this is the truth - and it's worse

www.gponline.com/less-three-10-gps-work-full-time-official-data-show/article/1522455

I’m a GP with nearly 25 years experience. I work 2.5 days a week, which works out at about 40 hours if you include the work I do on my days off (Reading patient letters, filing results, doing audits, medical reports, business planning meetings, reading daily updates, writing letters to name a few things).
Can anyone guess what my salary is for that?

I bloody love my GP. He's excellent..takes time to listen to you properly and does me the courtesy of treating me as an intelligent adult who he can have an honest, blunt and clear conversation with.

Added to which we are both mid 50s. He's worked for the NHS all this time, I work in education, so we are both cynically aware of ridiculous targets, budget cuts and how shit the government is. Many of our conversations have been about these topics whilst he's either examining me, or writing a prescription.

They are doing a great job under tricky conditions in my opinion.

The problem is systemic and needs an overhaul.

• There needs to be more nurses with more training who can prescribe for common or garden illnesses - saw one in emergency care for mastitis, was prescribed antibiotics by her, she knew what she was doing, didn't need a doctor.

• Remove bureaucracy from pharmacies, eg if a child has conjunctivitis, give them the bloodyveydrops, don't make them make a gp appointment.

... These two above may remove 20-30% of the demand for gp appointments. From my perspective the above is better than Livi, I've used that a couple of times and the gp has never prescribed, said I need a face to face appointment (so what's the point then...).

• Allow people to double or triple book appointments where one or more illnesses are present, it's time saving for both the doc and the patient to tick off multiple problems in the same appointment and these symptoms may be related, which helps diagnosis.

• There needs to be a seperate training path for GPs that it distinct from the rest of medicine sl you don't end up with no one choosing to be a GP. The GP training path needs to be to do that role not be a stepping stone to being a different kind of doctor. Medical school is fiercely competitive, you'd still get a lot of people wanting to do it.

• We do need to charge people for non attendance, appointments should be booked with a deposit that is refunded upon attendance.

*eye drops

supersimkin, I will laugh at stupidity. See Minty's ' I work 2.5 days a week, which works out at about 40 hours' or A "part time" GP is usually 3 x 13 hr days - same as full time hours of most other professions.

And that's after ten years of training.

No GPs in my family but I have the upmost respect for any doctor. It comes across as an incredibly demanding job probably with very little reward (even monetary in my view when I compare it to the likes of financial services for example). Obviously it involves years and years of education. I have often said to my husband that I never want our son to be a doctor. I fear that status aside it's actually a soul destroying job now days.

A very important job and the long hours affect partner and children too. So much paperwork and constant updating of best practice to keep on top of.

I think GPs are amazing and it looks like a very tough job that I would never do. They have to know so much, and it must be hard not to miss things or misdiagnose as symptoms of serious things can often mimic symptoms of less serious illnesses.

I think they deserve all their pay and more, and if I was in medicine I would much rather specialise than try and be a really good generalist. My DHs aunt is a retired GP and in her whole career she made one misdiagnosis which still haunts her decades later.

YANBU. But my brother is in A&E grade 6 and works horrendous hours for a fraction of the pay and little recognition. They are always short-staffed and he ends up working 12-hour shifts. During this pandemic he has lost so much weight. He says some days he doesn’t even have time to stop for a drink of water as they have to keep their water bottles in their lockers now and he just can’t get to his. He wants to take early retirement as soon as he can.

My GP rings me every two weeks. I don’t actually want to speak to him and don’t see what purpose it is serving, although he is pleasant and competent. I would like to see a counsellor. I have been on the waiting list for 14 months.

At the same time, I work in a shop. Many of my coworkers have degrees in psychology, counselling or similar and can’t get relevant work.

It would seem much cheaper to train up therapists and counsellors than GPs. I am aware there is drug prescribing but surely the services could be combined effectively.

Mental health issues are a huge proportion of GP visits, but how much of a GP’s training is in mental health, or social issues like food banks or housing or substance misuse support which is what a lot of patients actually need.

I’m sorry everyone saying that the financial rewards are massive lol

Are you aware that post qualifying (CCT) you are considered a GP and would most likely start with being a salaried GP which is not massively paid.

Second those who seem so sure of the financial benefits but are not actually GPS themselves, since when did all the GPs actually show you their payslips?!

@Noconceptofnormal

**There needs to be a seperate training path for GPs that it distinct from the rest of medicine sl you don't end up with no one choosing to be a GP. The GP training path needs to be to do that role not be a stepping stone to being a different kind of doctor. Medical school is fiercely competitive, you'd still get a lot of people wanting to do it.

What on earth are you talking about there is a separate training path for GPs called GP training. I believe out of all the post foundation doctor training pathways it is the quickest (currently 3 years) and most popular.

It most definitely is not a stepping stone for other types of training as you would still have to start from scratch in other pathways ie surgical training numbers which are one of the most competitive.

I say this an an ophthalmologist having completed a 7 year program that normally accepts 200-300 new trainees each year

gprecruitment.hee.nhs.uk/Portals/8/Documents/Annual%20Reports/GP%20ST1%20Recruitment%20Figures%202019.pdf

www.kingsfund.org.uk/blog/2019/12/future-general-practice

@BadSmellsHelp101 - so you're saying that at the bottom rung of the ladder (as it were) are salaried GPs and they're not paid much?

How much is not much? Are they on £30k? £35k? You are absolutely right , I don't know what 'training' GPs (salaried) GPs are paid. Please tell me

I do know what GPs who are Partners , are paid. In the South Midlands the Partners I know - and I know a few - are paid between £115k and £145 k a year..... plus very often there are bonuses on top of that. I know a few who are on £160k +

I think that's a good remuneration for the job they do and I think if they find their job as a GP partner onerous.... then perhaps they could look for work which is less stressful

@RunningAwaywiththeCircus

I **have posted about this before and I am usually accused of lying because it doesn’t suit the MN left wing agenda, but DH is a consultant with a private practice and managerial responsibility. He earned over £200k last FY (combined PP and NHS) and rarely works after 7pm.

I agree with your comments on your DH pay but that really is for the most senior drs. It also costs a lot (in terms of indemnity and insurance) to do private practice not every Dr who does it will get such amounts. In

It depends on your specialty and how lucrative it is from the pp angle (ophthalmology is very lucrative hence why it is very competitive). You do also need to make a good name for yourself in the private world.

Doctors are not really taught about pp or how to do it during training as the NHS benefits from the naivety of drs. Private practice also requires a decent amount of business acumen.

@chatterbugmegastar

Well at the bottom rung are the GPs in training then I believe come the salaried GPs.

I’m training starts at around 38,693 to 49, 036 basic plus your banging allowance depending on the job.
Salaried GPs something like 58,808- 88,704

These are good amounts but not huge. Especially because of training costs such as constant moving, exams, professional subscriptions and courses that you must do to revalidate and be able to work.

I understand that to become a partner costs a lot and you need to buy into the shares? Of a practice which is an expensive business. I’m not entirely sure but I would imagine a great deal of GPs prefer to locum now than become partners for flexibility.

I have many GP friends as I trained at a Med school that was new at the time but opened to increase GP numbers. I fortunately did not choose GP and I understand many who do often choose to leave but will have to re-train in the new specialty.

Just a dozen posts in and how hard being a gp is compared to teaching

Teachers have a worde d

Teachers have a worse deal than G.Ps in my opinion.

I completely agree with you op however I cannot understand why gp are unable to keep to a schedule for the majority of the time. I completely understand on the odd occasion but if you have private healthcare you see organisation happen. Your app. Is kept and if it's not you get an apology and an update as to how long you have to wait.

When you return to nhs you see the secretaries and receptionists greeting you like some great inconvenience.
I've been told I won't see a doctor only a nurse because there's a shortage in the U.K. then when I see the nurse they tell me I need to see a gp because they don't have a clue, I knew that would happen, it's just such hard work it creates big problems for a gp who's now seeing someone who's had to take two days annual leave for one app which I need for childcare and I'm having them wasted by inefficient staff.
So for me anyway the issue lies not with a gp themselves but the organisation of a practise.

I hope my dc never want to become GPS though. I think anyone that does these days must have a plan to eventually set up their own practise though so probably would eventually have more control over what they do or at least be appropriately rewarded financially for it.
Last I heard the government were trying to do away with small gp in favour of the large local health centres so who knows where the future lies for opening up a new practise. The good thing is those qualifications are good to have if you want to move careers or move to another country.

I thought it was very hard to get GPs to take salaried positions? I have a friend who’s a locum
and she seems to do very nicely financially.