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Why are Black Lives Matter activists and supporters calling for justice through the criminal justice system if they don’t believe in it?

82 replies

5wandh · 21/06/2020 18:02

This political movement says they stand for the abolition of the police and prisons. Does it not then go against what they claim to believe in if they call for a different type of system for one set of people yet want to use the very thing they stand against for another set of people?

OP posts:
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5wandh · 22/06/2020 19:39

@EnthusiasmIsDisturbed

And who exactly do you think speaks for Black Lives Matter? The cofounders themselves!

OP posts:
EnthusiasmIsDisturbed · 22/06/2020 19:40

What is it you are wanting 5wandh

To discredit the BLM movement

Or so people see the real truth

People can read if they choose to or not

Do you fear that that they will become too powerful and all that we know may change

EnthusiasmIsDisturbed · 22/06/2020 19:41

Do you think all have exactly they same ideas

Oldsu · 22/06/2020 19:45

@GreytExpectations

No, you and many others are wrong. Defunding the police is not abolishing the police. People need to seriously educate themselves before spouting this bullshit
Oh ok only no-one told this young lady, the day after Police put their lives on the line disarming a knifeman who had killed 3 people.
EnthusiasmIsDisturbed · 22/06/2020 19:48

Oh is that young lady a senior member of BLM writing their strategies to make changes

Oldsu · 22/06/2020 19:53

@EnthusiasmIsDisturbed

Oh is that young lady a senior member of BLM writing their strategies to make changes
No its a young women with a placard, and if she is not in tune with the thinking of senior members of the BLM whose cause she is supporting then maybe they should 'educate' her
Floraflower3 · 22/06/2020 19:54

I'm black, I believe in black lives matter but tbh I haven't looked at the website.

The police force (more so in America) definitely needs reform and I agree with the defunding model. However I don't agree with abolishing prisons or capitalism.

Now what OP? We don't all think the same you know

GreytExpectations · 22/06/2020 19:56

Oh @Oldsu is that the young lady behind writing the policies and strategies for BLM? Because if not then I don't understand your point.

EnthusiasmIsDisturbed · 22/06/2020 20:24

Do people really have to totally agree with all polices of a movement, political party or even follow every rule and guidance of religion to believe in the core belief

Well obviously they do I never realised that until today thank you for enlightening me

Oldsu · 22/06/2020 20:31

@GreytExpectations

Oh *@Oldsu* is that the young lady behind writing the policies and strategies for BLM? Because if not then I don't understand your point.
Oh dear so sorry, however if you have a hotline to the people writing the policies and strategies of the BLM, you should tip them the wink that people going on marches, in their name are getting defunding and abolishing mixed up, and are publicly waving placards around saying the wrong thing, I am sure they would be interested
GreytExpectations · 22/06/2020 20:50

No hotline, I just base my opinions off what I read on their website instead of making a generalisation based on one protestor

Smileyaxolotl1 · 22/06/2020 20:50

enthusiasm
No, of course they don’t.
But abolishing the form of control of criminal behaviour in most of the world and the system of finance in 95%of the world is pretty major in terms of policy isn’t it?

GreytExpectations · 22/06/2020 20:51

@EnthusiasmIsDisturbed

Do people really have to totally agree with all polices of a movement, political party or even follow every rule and guidance of religion to believe in the core belief

Well obviously they do I never realised that until today thank you for enlightening me

I think generally they don't have to but because we are talking about oppressed black lives, then yes white people will challenge it. God forbid BAME people start having a voice.
EnthusiasmIsDisturbed · 22/06/2020 20:59

Again the policy

Oldsu · 22/06/2020 21:57

@GreytExpectations

No hotline, I just base my opinions off what I read on their website instead of making a generalisation based on one protestor
One protester?
Why are Black Lives Matter activists and supporters calling for justice through the criminal justice system if they don’t believe in it?
Why are Black Lives Matter activists and supporters calling for justice through the criminal justice system if they don’t believe in it?
Why are Black Lives Matter activists and supporters calling for justice through the criminal justice system if they don’t believe in it?
5wandh · 22/06/2020 22:11

@GreytExpectations

How does asking a question to do with a movements views on a different justice system equal not wanting BAME people to have a voice? If you meant that comment in relation to the poster you quoted then I have to point out that I never said that a person has to agree with all policies/beliefs of a movement to support it, only that you can’t expect a person to just support it based on one or more aspects of it either.

OP posts:
EnthusiasmIsDisturbed · 22/06/2020 22:43

Again why does it bother you

Most people don’t care they care about every policy

They care that at last a movement that is making headway a movement that is making people question white privilege a movement that makes people realise that changes have to be made so Black Lives Matter equally

Smileyaxolotl1 · 22/06/2020 23:15

enthusiasm
Anyone who doesn’t care that an organisation they are supporting has the aim of destroying law and order and capitalism (unless they are things they actually support in which case fair enough) must be pretty dim. It’s frankly bizarre to ignore extremist aims because you like the slogan.

Linning · 22/06/2020 23:57

I am a person of color who supports the fight against racial injustice but don’t necessarily agree with all the policies The BLM Organization is wanting to implement.

BLM is asking to defund the police because the weaker you make the police system the more you will realize how obsolete and unnecessary it is and how little purpose they serve. Yet in the US most of the taxes go on Military, Police etc... a

If you want to understand a little bit more about why (some) people feel the police system should be abolished and not just defunded it is because it is simply because it literally causes more deaths and abuse in the US than it seems to save.

In 2019 police killed 1099 people,

In most criminal cases, police intervene AFTER a crime is committed, VERY rarely do they actually stop any crime from happening and when they do VERY rarely is it a murder or assault, it’s often DUI, drug possession, bar fights or prostitution, not nothing of value but they are very rarely actively saving lives yet again, they do cause the death of over 1000 people yearly, plenty of them unarmed. They also participate in the incarceration of thousands of black (and non-black) lives for life, in the US there is a 3 strikes law in many places where 3 crimes (it could be one violent crime and 2 more petty ones) means life in jail without parole, those aren’t for murder charges but things like aggravated robbery or aggravated assault. Which means that plenty of black young men have been condemned for life in jail WITHOUT parole for things that while not great, definitely don’t amount to murder (and in the US murderers can plea and have a reduced sentence therefore they are actually condemned at higher stakes than murderers). Not saying that they shouldn’t arrest them but the US judicial system is completely screwed and need a complete overhaul there are kids RIGHT NOW purging life sentences for stuff they committed at the age of 12/13, some not for murder google Kenneth young (a 15yo forced by his stepdad to commit a robbery, he actually stopped a woman from being raped, yet he was condemn to life in prison). The current police and judicial system NEED to be abolished, so we can create better, safer and less prejudiced systems (maybe similar idk but definitely NOT the current ones) Police officers are less trained than a hairdresser yet they carry a weapon, are trained to kill and are allowed to cause the death of over a 1000 people yearly? YES the current police system need, not only to be defunded but abolished and replaced.

Here is a former police officer who is also for the end of the police as we know It and why: medium.com/@OfcrACab/confessions-of-a-former-bastard-cop-bb14d17bc759

I can’t speak for the UK Justice system but in the US we do have a system, there simply is no Justice in it. You can’t have a “justice system” that isn’t actually fair or unbiased.

nancybotwinbloom · 23/06/2020 00:00

@022828MAN

Apologies I don't understand the difference can you explain it To me please?

EnthusiasmIsDisturbed · 23/06/2020 00:06

Smiley that is a lot of people you are accusing of being dim ....

Black Lives Matter is not a slogan

It’s a statement that really should not in 2020 even need to be made it should be a fact

Did you start the thread last week ?

Shinesweetfreedom · 23/06/2020 00:49

Obstruct the Nuclear family.
What the heck is that precisely about.

Kokeshi123 · 23/06/2020 04:02

The US police do a lot of things which would be done by other departments or organizations in other countries. It's reasonable to suggest that some changes are made.

I am not sure this applies at all in the UK, where our police system is very different and where police officers kill very very few people and are not armed.

BLM appears to be a loose umbrella of an organization which covers numerous chapters, all of which have somewhat different views. For the most part, the demands and stances appear to have gone well beyond simply "reform the police" and have become the usual "far-left-wing laundry list." So, anti capitalism, anti nuclear family, abolish a whole bunch of stuff, transwomen are women are women are women blah blah.

Cf the Women's March and Occupy Wall Street and many other things which all started off with some decent aims, and then ended up embarrassing themselves as the usual awful people started showing up and infiltrating the movement, like anti-semites and terrorist sympathizers and people who think the Venezuelan regime is totally coolio. I notice that Socialist Workers Party and other fringe groups, as usual, have got involved with BLM. Oh God, here we go again. Seen it all before. Yawn.

And I know that most protesters for BLM have not engaged in violence, vandalism or looting, but BLM does not seem to have gone out of its way to condemn the minority who have carried out this behavior either.

I'm happy to support police reform, but this organization will get no support from me, sorry. I was also happy to support the original point of the Women's March (that Trump is a horrific human being who has committed sexual assault and doesn't even seem to be sorry about this) but the Women's Match ended up being hijacked by horrible people and it's starting to happen here too.

Smileyaxolotl1 · 23/06/2020 07:36

linning
Yes that is shocking but almost nothing you say relates to the UK. Yet UK BLM have ‘abolish the police’ as a stated aim.

enthusiasm if the cap fits. But actually as I said on the thread the vast majority of people have no idea what they are putting their name to.
And yes it was and I am still disgusted that a thread with 75% support was pulled for making the real aims of the organisation clear.
And of course it’s a slogan - maybe invest in a dictionary?
As defined in the dictionary - definitIon 2 (noun)
‘A motto associated with a political movement or party or other group’

Smileyaxolotl1 · 23/06/2020 07:39

shinesweetfamily
It means make everyone completely dependent on the state.
So basically the Communism that worked so well in the USSR, China and east Germany.

And footballers have this organisation emblazoned on their shirts. It’s actually ridiculous.

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