Why are Black Lives Matter activists and supporters calling for justice through the criminal justice system if they don’t believe in it?

[5wandh]

This political movement says they stand for the abolition of the police and prisons. Does it not then go against what they claim to believe in if they call for a different type of system for one set of people yet want to use the very thing they stand against for another set of people?

Part of the problem seems to be that are several BLM groups with some very different approaches.

Even if the core principles are the same those that surround it will always have an impact on how the group is viewed.

@FrippEnos
@Puzzledandpissedoff

The two movements are connected. The Black Lives Matter website states that they are a global organisation in the United States of America, the United Kingdom and Canada. If that isn’t good enough then the BLM UK instagram clearly states that they are endorsed by Patrisse Cullors, one of the three founders of Black Lives Matter and the movements strategic advisor.

I think OP the reason is quite simple - that they haven't really got any kind of organised thinking about their goals or ideology or politics. It's very much a bunch of ideas, a few good, a few bad, and a lot half-baked, that don't necessarily all fit together.

@OnSilverStars

Their goal is NOT to abolish the police. Defund the police means (especially in America) so spend less on policing. It's a massive part of government budget and is not fulfilling its role/ to serve the people. Instead the budget should be more fairly distributed amongst services that help people and build better communities - social care, community outreach and social development programs, etc. No one wants to get read of the police and prison systems entirely. They just want to deflate an overgrown beast

They’re not demanding that for the U.K. police, I assume?

the BLM UK instagram clearly states that they are endorsed by Patrisse Cullors, one of the three founders of Black Lives Matter and the movements strategic advisor

Does it now? I don't tend to go on Instagram so hadn't seen that

TBF I suppose anyone can say anything, but if BLMUK are so out of step with the "main" organisation I'm surprised there's been no statement to distance themselves. It wouldn't even take much time out of their other work; a quick sentence would do to avoid any unwelcome

Fortunately BLMUK have stated that all will be cleared up as to their organisation and funding soon, so we'll all look forward to that

That should have said "unwelcome confusion" ...

Everyone knows that BMLUK is run by anarchists and the like. They aren’t going to be consistent or even capable of rational thought on the whole.

@amijustparanoidorjuststoned
@cardibach
@OnSilverStars
@PlanDeRaccordement
@EnthusiasmIsDisturbed

Defunding the police is about the abolition of them and the same goes for prisons. It’s actually scary how many people are wilfully misinformed. I can only presume from your replies that none of you have looked into the movement fully before stating such things sadly. See attached picture and others in subsequent posts for clarity. One is from Black Lives Matter directly, four are from one of the cofounders, one is from another cofounder, one is from the Los Angeles branch of the movement and one is from BLM U.K. which is associated with the main movement.

@Puzzledandpissedoff

BLM UK are not out of step with the main arm of the movement Black Lives Matter. Why would they denounce something that the founders themselves believe in and have clearly stated if people are actually willing to research them and see for themselves. Their main page has a section around helping them fight disinformation, do you not think they would of done something about BLM UK by now if that was the case. Let alone the fact that instagram notifies you if someone uses a link to your profile in their bio along with the option to remove that link from the app side of it if you disagree with it.

@EnthusiasmIsDisturbed

As for saying stick to their core principle, the abolition of the police and prisons is a part of what their core principle is along with their reasons for wanting this. They essentially believe that for black lives to matter, abolition of the criminal justice system is needed and a form of restorative justice put in its place.

To add to that, even if it wasn’t a core principle, I would argue that if you make your movement about multiple causes and beliefs all hidden under one banner, you muddle the ethics and cannot then expect people to follow it just because they may believe in one or more aspects of it despite not agreeing with others.

@gutentag1

I do understand what your saying but to add to one of my previous posts and address your point regarding being forced to act within the remits of the current system, surely they could still advocate for mental health help/rehabilitation regarding crimes of police officers and others instead of calling for justice under the criminal system and wanting a prison sentence. This would be in keeping with the values they say they believe in which is why I question it.

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BLM UK are not out of step with the main arm of the movement Black Lives Matter ... Their main page has a section around helping them fight disinformation, do you not think they would of done something about BLM UK by now if that was the case

Actually yes, I did notice that bit about disinformation. Granted it would be hard to monitor every last little thing, but BLMUK are pretty high profile right now and with the increasing negative attention I'd have thought the "main" BLM organisation might want to distance themselves if they're really not connected

That said, with over £1 million under some unknown folks' belts, perhaps BLMUK think it doesn't matter as long as people keep donating?

Either way, it seems to me that the concept that black lives matter - which any normal person would surely agree with - is getting a bit mixed up with the name choice of a shadowy "organisation", and I'm not sure that's entirely healthy

Funny I’ve not met anyone who is overly concerned about who is running BLMUK

I’ve seen links to Daily Mail and a few other papers questioning them

Everyone I know is happy at last with the BLM message getting across and changes actually happening in such a short space of time but it took a man being murdered for this to happen

I asked early why it’s so bothersome for some the question was ignored

No, you and many others are wrong. Defunding the police is not abolishing the police. People need to seriously educate themselves before spouting this bullshit

@GreytExpectations

Defunding the police for many is about redistributing the police budget in the mean time to black communities with the eventual goal being the abolition of the police and prisons. Defunding is a starting point towards that goal. Many supporters believe this. The cofounders themselves clearly state that abolition is their goal. The cofounders are Black Lives Matter. I would say that you are the one in need of education if you believe otherwise. I have shared posts from the cofounders/Black Lives Matter that clearly state this. I am not the one perpetuating misinformation.

To add to that, I don’t mind if anyone believes in the abolition of the police and prisons, that is their right and I respect their right to believe it no matter if I may fully agree with it or not. I actually admire their aim as I stated previously. However, this is not what my post was regarding.

Abolishing prisons and police is not the intended end result of defunding the police.

Says who @greyt?

5w has some pretty compelling evidence that it's their intention. Where's evidence to the contrary?

My evidence is the official black lives matter website. It explains about taking some of the fund from the already over funded police and redistributing them to the communities and other areas that need them. Nowhere in the website do they suggest abolishing the police. This is something white people have twisted to once again shut down black voices.

Those who think the black lives matter message in America is wrong, well what do you expect? The people who are supposed to keep them safe are killing them. Those people are severely over funded. Have you seen the statistics that show the disgusting amount of money pumped into the police every year? The needs to be redistributed. You cant blame Black people for suffering in their communities because of systemic racism to then see the police who are a literal threat to their lives being given insane amounts of money.

Same old people on here denying the evidence that is actually written by the organisations themselves! It’s so boring and predictable.
‘Abolish the police’ and ‘dismantle capitalism’ both clearly stated by BLM Uk.
If these aims are nothing to do with the movement as a whole, the leaders of the movement should state that they are not affiliated with the U.K. version.

greytexpectations but it says ‘abolish the police* on the BLM uk funding website and on their twitter.

I'm referring to the American BLM.

@GreytExpectations

I'm referring to the American BLM.

The American Black Lives Matter has shared a post saying AbilitionNow. The cofounder herself who is Black Lives Matter has said that the current system of law enforcement must be abolished. She has also spoken about jail reform that will get them closer to prison abolishment. Another cofounder who is also Black Lives Matter has shared a post about what defunding the police looks like which states that they believe they can build a world free of police eventually.

I haven’t seen it on the BLM site

I’ve seen it on one of the co founders twitter account

@Smileyaxolotl1

They are affiliated as one of the cofounders endorses BLM UK herself and the Black Lives Matter website clearly states that they are a global network with branches in the United States, Canada and also the United Kingdom.

Regardless I don’t think many people care that much about the intricacies of all the reforms they would like to see happen

The vast majority believe in Black Lives Matter

All movements that make a real change have to be radical or changes don’t happen. The ideas get watered down until is more broadly accepted. You must know how radical feminists have seemed in the past