How to live with hoarder husband

[kavalkada]

Posting here for traffic. First, I apologize for all mistakes I'm going to make because English is not my first language, sorry. And feel free to correct me. I won't mind, actually I would like that.

So, back to the problem. My husband is a hoarder, he comes from a family of hoarders and I knew that when we met because first time I visited him, his apartment was a hoarder's paradise. I, on the other hand, am super organized and if I could have a dream job that would be organizing other people homes (unfortunately, not possible in my country). We talked about this before we married and we agreed on some rules that will make our life better - for him and for me.

He has a room just for him where he can hoard as much as he likes and two large wardrobes just for him and his things. He keeps his hoarding to allocated places and it works for us. I'm allowed to bin his rubbish from time to time - real rubbish - packages of food, shoes and clothes with holes and things like that. I just have to do that slowly so he doesn't notice that. So, as far as hoarding goes, we're at good place.

But, we have two problems, one that we have now, and the other that we will have in few years.

1. Toys - my MIL is lovely woman, but she likes to bring toys - lot of them to my children. We live in a three bedroom apartment and with four of us there is not much place for them. I created a system with one huge chest, ikea trofast, chest of drawers and few others places for toys. But there is too much of stuff. And considering the fact that my children are small we're talking about big toys. I can get rid of smaller items without anybody noticing, but with bigger items it's a problem. And my husband doesn't want to get rid of anything. So, what to do and how to do it?

1. Two kids in three bedroom apartment - I have a soon to be 6-year old boy and one year old girl. My little boy sleeps in his room and my little girl is with us in her bed in our bedroom. And she'll stay there till her third birthday. As I said before, my husband has a room for himself but in two-three years we will need that room for our little girl. But that means that he will have to lose his room, and the moment he loses his room, his junk will occupy the rest of of our flat. And when that happens, I know that we will fight all the time because I can't live in clutter. My brain can't handle that and I know I will became a horrible wife and horrible mother after that. Please don't judge me.

What to do? It would be ideal to find bigger place, but I don't think that will be possible in next 7 or 8 years. Was there anybody with similar problem. how did you solve it?

@FourDecades I think it's all based on "You never know when you might need it."

@70isaLimitNotaTarget, you say "Some things she wants to donate are just rubbish, but if I say "Oh that needs to go in the bin" she'll want to keep it" - couldn't you agree that you'll take it to the charity shop and then bin in without her knowing?

@kavalkada

My MIL is really nice woman and she really tries not to bring stuff to our house - and keeps most in her flat that is full to the brim, but three times a year - Christmas and kids birthdays she goes all the way. And I don't want to upset her because I know how much it means to her. And my husband would never throw one single toy, for him everything is important.

As far as my husband, we talked and he told me that he needs a place in our flat that'll be just for him, where he can be himself without need to be tidy. And he is right, he respects the rest of our home and keeps it the way I like it, and he should have a place of his own. I would be pretty mad if I were in his shoes and my husband wouldn't let me have a little piece of my home just for myself.

But that doesn't solve our problem.

He needs to earn enough money so that he can afford a four bedroom house then, doesn't he? Or fuck off and get somewhere for himself. Where he'll never be able to have the children safely, but he'll have 'his' space.

No sympathy for hoarders. I grew up in a house full of shit, all of which had more value than any other human, animal or 'hysterical' notions of health and safety.

It's definitely hoarding when possessions have more importance than people and are inhibiting life.

I am naturally hoardy, but can let things go when their purpose is served. Marie Kondo is good for this. I do have a weak spot for the sentimental though.
DM is a hoarder (I suspect rooted in a turbulent childhood and several points of moving on abruptly and leaving things behind). As the last in a line of children, I had all the hand-me downs whether I liked them or not. I didn't have autonomy over clearing random old crap out or decent storage for it either. I'm not naturally good at tidying and I've had to learn to do it as an adult as in sorting through and putting away efficiently, not just hiding under a bed.

A big thing for hoarders is the aspiration to do something that never actually happens.

A man in my previous street hoarded old cars (not classic vintage). Apparently there were boxes of car parts stored through the house. He always hoped to do up the four cars in his front garden. 2 years ago, he had a fire in the kitchen and the hoard caused the fire to rage through the house. The house was totally gutted, and still the 4 cars remain undrivable in the front garden in front of the shell of a house. It's all gone. (Fortunately he escaped with minor injuries) Those cars never moved an inch from me moving out about 7 years earlier and for some of them, moving in 15+ years ago.

Ultimately a hoard won't last forever. Better to sort it out yourself and keep the worthy bits than have it all dumped when you're dead (divorced?) or something random like burned down.

Hoarding is a mental security blanket of not letting go. You can't get anywhere long term unless the hoarder wants to change their behaviour long term. The hoarder had to be realistic about what their hoard is doing and what they will actually do with it.

Adapting around the hoard such as giving up your room for the sofa just lets the hoard grow and grow. Do not do that. He has to see how he is valuing random rubbish over his wife and daughter.

I would aim to get this problem out of the house to start with, as it will affect your children.

A storage locker is a good suggestion from a previous poster.

However, the actual problem itself needs to be tackled, not encouraged, but this will take time.

Hoarding is part of the OCD group of illnesses, and will need therapy such as Cognitive behavioural therapy (highly effective!).

I would start with the short term solution, of removing this situation from your home first, and giving your daughter her own room. Then your husband will hopefully be open to working with a therapist.

Wishing you all the best OP.

Hoarding is part of the OCD group of illnesses, and will need therapy such as Cognitive behavioural therapy (highly effective!).

I get the feeling that you won't push for therapy? (On some level he is suffering otherwise this wouldn't be a problem). If not know that it is likely that your dc inherit it, even more so if exposed to his clutter.

From a practical point of view, could he have a room at his parent's house? His reluctance to get help shouldn't be at the detriment of his dc could you tell him that?

But he is breaking the agreement already.

His room is where the hoarding ends, full stop.

He has no right to impose his wishes on the situation with toys, other belongings - NO RIGHT AT ALL. Those are not his things. That is not his room. It's a flat NO.

Firstly you need to tell him, very firmly, that this is the deal.

He is already being enabled... that's not good, but it's perhaps another thread.

You tell him straight - if he wants to be married with a family and have all the good stuff that comes along with that - then he has to compromise. NO - you will get rid of ANY TOYS YOU LIKE. He will simply have to swallow that.

If he can't - the marriage won't survive. And it's a slippery slope anyway. First toys. Then furniture. All of a sudden, you are living your life in a box curtailed by his affliction.

The room is another issue. The answer to that is counselling and eventual normal life. For me, I don't think I would be able to countenance enabling his issues to the extent that I didn't have my own room, because it was more important for his hoarding to have it.

So that's another question. But right now, you sit down and redraw the lines. You will get rid of anything you like which is not his and he has no right to start furthering his control.

I think it's all based on "You never know when you might need it."

Which l totally understand as I'm like this with item's, but... what possible use could a broken fridge have if he can't fix it.

OP - when you ask him about item's that are broken what does he answer? If he could see that there is no reasoning to keep broken item's... which then take up space for item's that would be worth keeping... would he be more willing to part with them?

@FourDecades this is exactly why it is a compulsion, there is no logic involved and you really can't reason.

You build another cupboard in the living space or your bedroom and he has to empty out the room into that. I would ask that he attends therapy to help him achieve it.

@70isaLimitNotaTarget, you say "Some things she wants to donate are just rubbish, but if I say "Oh that needs to go in the bin" she'll want to keep it" - couldn't you agree that you'll take it to the charity shop and then bin in without her knowing?

Yes agree Hollow . My Mum had 2 knitting machines and 2 sewing machines . Knitting machines were in the drawers under her bed (mainly) and various bits dotted around .
One sewing machine on a wooden table/unit . One in another bedroom.

We went through the KM ( sorted out which one she wanted to keep) and I secured it to the wooden unit ( the SM went to the skip)

She kept saying she wanted to sew things , she'd get one of the neighbours to fix the SM (even though she won't let anyone in the house )
She insisted the unwanted KM got given to the Church . It was ancient , broken, sticky , I can just imagine them saying "Ah Thanks for that , now we have to dump this rubbish"

I keep telling her (and my DDad) that Charity Shops only want something that another person will buy they're not dumping grounds .

My Mum cannot use a knife and fork.
I offered her cutlery she said "No I use my hands"

So if you cannot hold a fork , how The Hell do you think you'll thread a machine ?

She likes being surrounded by her clutter . It is dangerous . She falls .

I took her to her Consultant appointment and at the end I said to him "Can I just ask you to agree with me that my Mum neds to declutter to make her room safer"?

He agreed with me , told my Mum. that 'yes you need to declutter'

My Mum vehemently denies this conversation taking place .
But when I went to see them last time she flew into rage because I took one of her knittting machines . (Even though she'd okayed it )

I cannot win.

Therapy and drug treatment can be very effective. Unfortunately, in teh UK they like to just stick to the therapy bit and then do it half-arsed. My son has this as he has OCD and it was only the combination of therapy and SSRI that helped him immensely.

I could not live like this. I have PTSD quite severely and his attempts to hoard brought me very close to sectioning and suicide.

We are both on ADs and having therapy. It really needs a two-pronged approach, however.

OCD is anxiety-driven and this is why psychiatrists will also often recommend drug treatment for people who have severe hoarding issues.

First step he needs to visit his GP