Anyone got ideas on HOW secondary schools can go back full time in Sept?

[Fizzysours]

I am a teacher and I want schools back now. Many of my pupils are getting really low and lonely and about 40% are not managing the work we set. I just don't get how full time will work in Sept though because....
-with one metre distancing we can fit 20, not 30 in a class
-kids will have to sit at one desk all day, to reduce transmission on objects, teachers would rotate
-so if we 'set' the class for english, the setting will be totally wrong for maths, and vice versa, so what level do we teach them? They won't get good appropriate work, but a 'one size for all'- shockingly hard for them
-what about their options? Half of each bubble doing geography, half history etc.....
-how do they get lunch? We can only stagger it so much, with rotating teachers.
Anyone else thinking this is just going to be so hard? Do we give in and have school as normal, with the really high infection risks? If it's as above, these kids cannot be expected to perform at GCSE.

Have I missed some really simple solution? It just seems impossible. But they must come back. Home is just so hard for them.

I totally agree Adventures

The trouble is, inorder to get us to lock down when we needed too, to government scared everyone silly about the virus.

Now the fallout of that is that everyone is too scared to move forward.

I have 3 teenagers. the risk to their mental health at the moment is high. The long term risk to my year 10 and year 12 of havign poor exam results is high. The educational risk to me year 7 who is waiting for assessments which are now 6 months delayed, is high.
the risk of them being seriously ill form this virus is extremely low.

Making a risk assessment, I think they should be back. Not in september, but now.

I am really tired of the government prioritising the younger kids because that means childcare. Please take the needs of the teens more seriously.

We are not prepared to risk our kids because some teenagers are not sticking to social distancing.

2 things here.

1. loads of people all over the country are not and have not been sticking to social distancing. have you seen the photos of Primark?
2. there have not been any local or nation second wave/spikes becuase of it.

I think (personally) that this is because the distancing we are doing, plus the other things we are doing is enough.

hand washing/using hand sanitizer all the time
no hugs, hand holding, hand shaking, physical contact
keeping some distance, even if only 50 cm, rather than very close
anyone who is sick/symptomatic keeping at home.
masks on public transport

These things are working.
VE weekend was a joke, news feeds showing people all over the place standing apart, and then once the camera moves, all close together. BBQs and parties all over the place, started with good intentions, then as people had too much to drink....
NO spike/second wave from VE day.

God, I just want everything to be as it was before. I want to be back, in the classroom, teaching. I want my son to be back at school and attending all his activities, not crying about how lonely he is.

People have lost all sense of risk. The main way to stop the spread, is and always has been, to wash your bloody hands properly. I am aghast at the amount of people who thought it novel to wash their hands for 20 seconds and include the backs of their hands and thumbs!

Back to school, no social distancing, no PPE. Handwashing.

Back to school, no social distancing, no PPE. Handwashing.

I just couldn't agree more.

I am going to repeat myself.

There have been studies done with classrooms where the children had to wash their hands every time they entered the room. First thing in the morning, after break, before and after lunch, etc.
The rate of infections compared to the control group was down by 70+%
Now, this wasn't corona virus, but it was colds, flu, noro virus etc.
It is too hard to put a row of basins in every class, so provide hand sanitizer, every child, every class.

The trouble is, telling people that a deadly infectious virus can be killed by soap goes against the grain, if it is deadly and infectious then it must need a high tech way to kill it. No, soap works. Better than hand gel actually, but hand gel will do.
I have seen a great kids science poster which shows you have the virus is destroyed by soap.

Had the media not scared everyone to death, there would be less of these questions, just an acceptance that it's time kids went back to school. End of. We can't keep looking at the government to protect us, we have to look after ourselves, it's not their job and we need to take responsibility. There are literally thousands of people working in healthcare, supermarkets and schools right now who would be deemed 'vulnerable' yet they have worked throughout with no fuss.

@my2bundles

Steely correction. Some teenagers are not social distancing. There are lots of us parents who don't allow this and have genuine concerns about social distancing and schools returning. We are not prepared to risk our kids because some teenagers are not sticking to social distancing.

^ This

My teenager is definitely social distancing as are her friends.

@zafferana the thing that really gets to me is how all the information/guidance is given to schools. Schools find out the same time as everyone else. So Secondary Schools found out that they weren't to open until the 15th rather than the 1st June at a press briefing Boris was giving, and this press briefing wasn't specifically about education, I seem to remember it was mainly about Dominic Cummings. Doesn't help that most of these press briefings are held at a time when most people who work in education are actually still at work!

The guidance and the press briefing all seem to centre around Primaries eg talk about bubbles being 15 or whole class obviously relate to Primaries not Secondaries.

Last week they mentioned they were going to announce a massive catch up plan some time this week but didn't specify when , and suddenly it appeared on the BBC News website early yesterday morning, but no extra information was sent to schools.

Yesterday they mention this plan to get all pupils back in school, but no more details. They always say they have discussed with schools and unions, they haven't.

If yesterday Gavin had said we hope to be able to get all pupils back in September, obviously it is difficult to say how we are going to do this but we will discuss with schools, unions, other countries how we could do this, and maybe come up with a few scenarios depending where we are with the virus, and they actually did this, the education sector would be much happier.

Instead what they have done is pretty much thrown schools under the bus, because if it isn't possible for schools to be fully back in September it will be the schools that are blamed.

Primary Schools have had over 40 different pieces of guidance and counting, how many more do you think they will have by September, and why are they usually released in the evenings?

I think probably most school leaders would be happy to just return with increased hygiene and hand-wash facilities, strict sickness policy. What about contact tracking though? Or would school kids be excluded from that? One case would lead to chaos and lots of people including staff having to isolate unless you control groups and social distance to some extent. They reckon one in 1700 has it currently if i remember correctly. The population of a secondary school can easily hit that number.

Think that is why bubbles work, so only the bubble has to isolate, that can work in Primaries but not Secondaries

DS school is having other years back for some time with a teacher before summer holidays start. Even the thought of this little thing has really boosted DSs morale.

I can't imagine the stress of trying to plan for September for schools.

@MasterGland wow so much disregard for other people’s lives

So many selfish idiots on here who have no idea how a virus works

Washing yoir fucking hands isn’t the solution

Evidence now says spread via droplets in the air that you breathe in. Washing your bastard hand won’t prevent that.

@steppemum so data from a different virus really helpful.

Coronavirus is spread via airborne droplets.

And @steppemum it’s fab kids don’t get sick but I assume you are also of the mindset stufff staff right? Who gives a flying fuck about them. If they die they die. If they get long term issues, fuck em.

@Davincitoad. I know how a virus "works". I am a biologist. Handwashing is the most effective way to prevent viral transmission.

Instead what they have done is pretty much thrown schools under the bus, because if it isn't possible for schools to be fully back in September it will be the schools that are blamed

This is very much my view. I desperately want my children back at school, but unless it is without restrictions it can't possibly happen. I do not trust the government to come up with any workable plan and as no school is equal (space, intake etc) there can be no universal plan.

My sister is secondary maths, they are having yr 10 in for half a day a week. She is fortunate in as much as the day she is in is the day that they have the triple science pupils in, so generally the top tier of pupils and pretty much equal attainment wise. Other days could end up with a general mix of ability with pupils they haven't taught before.

People don't want teachers to die (I do actually like my sister) but there has to be a way of going forwards just like there needs to be for every other job.

[quote MasterGland]@Davincitoad. I know how a virus "works". I am a biologist. Handwashing is the most effective way to prevent viral transmission.[/quote]
If it’s transmitted by contact. If it’s transmitted by air, how does it help to have clean hands?

The droplet transmission that is referenced in the government guidance refers to droplets generated by coughs and sneezes. Which most people catch... in their hands. Picking noses, fingers in mouth, and wiping after the toilet are all other ways that the virus makes its way to the hands.

Guidance is clear that the best way to prevent transmission is effective handwashing.

I hear you @ineedaholidaynow and you're right - communication has been atrocious. It's not right at all that schools are not consulted or and warned that information is coming out that affects them and when it will be announced. The govt could do with school leaders/teachers on its side too at this point, so not communicating properly isn't helping them to state their case.

There have been studies done with classrooms where the children had to wash their hands every time they entered the room. First thing in the morning, after break, before and after lunch, etc. The rate of infections compared to the control group was down by 70+%
Now, this wasn't corona virus, but it was colds, flu, noro virus etc. It is too hard to put a row of basins in every class, so provide hand sanitizer, every child, every class.

This is really important @steppemum. Perhaps you could write to beleaguered Gavin Williamson and tell him. I get the feeling he hasn't much of a clue about anything and my god this would make SUCH a difference to the general spreading of bugs in schools, not just CV-19.

What about staff with asthma, family members with cancer or diabetes?

The issue with abandoning social distancing is in my local schools many staff are clinically vulnerable or shielding. There is a huge recruitment crisis here and hardly any supply staff. The schools also don't have the budget to have another teacher plus pay the shielding people to be off as well.

So then they have the option of the shielded and vulnerable people coming back. Some of them may well resign and have already threatened to. Or they may get ill and then be off anyway. They already have two vacancies in the schools here that they can't fill after two teachers went on maternity leave and the supply dropped out.

It is a mess and so hard to manage, especially in secondary. Our local schools haven't even been able to open for key workers due to staffing issues.

What about staff with asthma, family members with cancer or diabetes?

There are a few choices:-

1. They all come back and schools open full time as normal.
2. They all stay at home and the government pay for schools to hire replacement for them. Schools open full time as normal.
3. The government won’t pay for replacement salaries so the shielders’ pay is stopped. Schools pay for replacement teachers. Presuming there are enough unemployed teachers around to fill all the gaps, schools can open full time as normal.

4 Schools continue with having children part time/on rotas until the shielded staff return.

Only 2 will be popular, but I don’t think the government will be too keen on doing that.

I think schools should open as normal without distancing .
If a school has a lot of shielding teachers then maybe they could work from home, doing stuff that the non-shielding teachers would normally do, thereby freeing those teachers up to teach more lessons. Shielding teachers could do the marking, for example. Write protocols, reports, all that admin stuff.
They have to find a way.
I’m a GP and one of my doctor colleagues is shielding. As well as doing telephone consultations, he has taken on additional admin workload, so the rest of us have time to see patients. That enables us to continue paying his full salary, and not needing to employ a locum.

If a school has a lot of shielding teachers then maybe they could work from home, doing stuff that the non-shielding teachers would normally do, thereby freeing those teachers up to teach more lessons. Shielding teachers could do the marking, for example. Write protocols, reports, all that admin stuff

Most marking needs to be done by the teacher who taught the lesson otherwise it’s pretty pointless.

We need replacements for the shielding teachers in school though. We need bodies in front of each class ofe children. We can’t have eg shielded teachers planning and TAs ‘delivering’ the lesson as we have no TAs.

We will need hard cash to pay both shielding staff and their replacements.

Or the children will have to be in part time.

@ineedaholidaynow this is what will happen, yes. Schools will be asked to do the impossible (bring all kids back safely, with proper set lessons and the full range of subjects) and if they can't, they will be blamed. Even though every teacher in the country wants every child back now. I am so lucky I am not on the leadership team because they will be damned every which way. The govt KNOW this can't work unless distancing is abandoned in schools, but they are refusing to be honest with the electorate. Again. I am waiting for the fanfare of...'we are down to one metre!!!! Get on with it, schools, we've explained the bubbles are now 30, problem over!!!' Sigh....I just feel the kids are missing out immensely.