A close relative of mine. not visiting baby in SCBU

[Babyface74]

Hi everyone - this is my first post, so I hope I've posted in the right section.

A close relative of mine had a baby 2 weeks okay at 31 weeks. The baby was in distress so she had a c-section. All things considered, the baby is in good shape, but is intensive care on a ventilator.

The problem is (I think) that said relative She doesn?t seem too bothered about visiting her baby who is in intensive care. She is all brandishing photos around and asking us to go up to her house to watch videos of him (?!) but is spending only about an hour or two there a day (in the evenings) despite having all manner of people around who would be more than happy to organise a lift rota (myself included). The hospital is a 10/15 min drive away.

Okay she?s had a c-section but it?s been over 2 weeks now. During the day, she has done the following instead of see her new baby:visited a friend who?d just had a perfectly healthy baby and I?m sure would have understood if she hadn?t visited, gone into work to shop off her baby pics (not pretty as baby is all tubes and wires), lunch with relatives, numerous trips to our local shopping centre, coffees with friends and relatives, the hairdressers.

Today I have offered her a lift there and back to the hospital, but she has declined, saying she will go with her husband this evening. How she can sit at home all day when her baby is lying on his own in hospital escapes me.

Having had a very prem baby myself (28 weeks) I feel very close to the issue. I spent every single day with my son during his 12 week stay in SCBU. I commuted 30 miles into London every day to do so because I didn't want to stay in hospital digs (she was also offered a room in the hospital, which is much closer to home).

She has said to me ? I don?t know how you did it, travelling up to London on the train every day. I?m so tired.? I replied honestly that ?I just wanted to be with my baby as much as a possibly could. I wouldn?t have had it any other way.? Every other mum I met was exactly the same ? spending as much time as they could. From my point of view, if she's got the energy to walk around a shopping centre, she should have the energy to sit next to her baby's bed in hospital!

I feel very wound up about it. She seems to think it?s some kind of holiday, that the hospital is some kind of baby hotel! She only wants the nice bits. I actually feel it?s quite neglectful. And I can?t believe hospital staff aren?t encouraging her to be there more. She tells me they have told her she ?needs to rest? but it?s not that taxing sitting in a hospital chair, is it? If I hadn't been there every single day, caring for my baby as much as I could, I just KNOW the nurses would have been on at me (albeit gently) to do so.

She needs to bond and, if she wants to start breastfeeding him, which she says she does, she needs to start trying.

She is quite a selfish person, so in some ways I'm not surprised. But then again, the only thing she has ever really wanted in life is a baby, so I'm puzzled by her no-show.

I guess it could be that she is frightened of something or maybe has the beginnigs of PND?

I have tried to hint, but I know I can't say anything outright because she is an in-law and, anyway, she has just given birth and I don't want to upset her.

But I do think she is being a bit neglectful and can't believe another family member hasn't encouraged her to visit more.

Would appreciate any thoughts/insights on this.

having posted early on in this thread and now having read all the comments I think babyface this is a lot to do with your feelings and what happened to you. There is nothing wrong with that at all the situation has obviously brought back all the trauma that you went through.
I think that here is the right place for you to explore those feelings. I also feel that your relationship with her isn't great and that is affecting your judgement of her
The staff will be aware of her non visiting and they will be discussing what to do about it I think you need to let go and let her deal with it in the way she sees fit.She will get there in the end ime most mums do.
One size in these situations does not fit all and she needs to do what is right for her.
Maybe this could be the time you could improve your relationship with her as you will have a shared experience

my dd2 was in intensive care on a ventilator for 2 weeks when she was 7 weeks old. I didn't go in to 'sit' with her really, I'd pop in and out but didn't spend much time in total there.

There was nothing I could do for her by being there, she was heavily sedated and a very distressing sight. Staff discouraged me from talking to her as it might make her move around, which would then result in the ventilator tubing irritating her airways.

I don't think it affected bonding at all TBH.

There is loads of good advice here from people far more experienced than me but just to share my experience: I had a very traumatic birth with DS, he was only five weeks early so he was more or less fine, but the birth was horrendous and then he had to go back into hospital for a week just a day after we got home because of jaundice. That week I had to stay with him in the ward 24/7 and it was hell, I would rather have been anywhere else. I wanted to kill myself, I thought about what would happen if he died and I wondered whether I would be pleased. Several times I seriously considered walking out of the hospital and not stopping, heading off down the dual carriageway. I had terrible, terrible thoughts and it took me a long, long time to bond with DS.

I think people deal with trauma in their own ways. I wouldn't have a go at your relative, just let her get on with it and be there for her if need be. I think it's good that you posted btw.

I have only read the op, but, when my baby was in scbu, (27 weeks) there was a baby there whose mother didn't visit her for a month, it turned out that the mother was suffering from post natal depression. As you know it is not always easy to visit hospitals and even though you and otheres have offered to take her, maybe she wants to go with her husband. Maybe she is depressed, and although you

chose to be with your baby a lot during his time in scbu, you need to let this lady chose her own path.
The only person you could in all honesty have a pop at for not visiting their baby enough in scbu would of been either yourself or your husband.

Two other things my friend who didn't visit her baby for a month ... well her baby was a 34 weeker and the baby died at 7 months old, she od with grief and remorse 6 months later, luckily she survived.

And 28 weeks aint very prem, prem maybe but not very prem, my two mates who babies were born at 23 weeks and 4 days were very prem. That was quite bizzare, the baby boy was in hospital for 11 months was on o2 for 3 years and is still tube fed (he eats but can't chew too well so is 'topped' up in the evening) , but at 8 he is G and T and physically very very healthy and plays cricket for his county!!! Whilst the girl came out before her due date and has mild asthma, but apart from that is perfectly normal.

I haven't read other posts but really I don't think that your friend is doing anything that unreasonable. There could be all sorts of reasons why your friend doesn't want to visit alone during the day, including that she would be very bored she feels uneasy in the hospital environment etc.

I had a baby at 32 weeks and I work and have worked in a NICU environment and really your friend is not doing anything out of the ordinary compared with other parents that I've dealt with.

Yes if she wants to breastfeed then she will need to express, can be done at home, and spend time establishing feeding with him but clearly not when he is on a ventilator!

I also find your comment "gone into work to shop off her baby pics (not pretty as baby is all tubes and wires)" down right offensive.

Hi Babyface

My Dd went into SCBU for 4 days at a week old and we stayed there all hours, except to go home for food and bathing, feed cats etc.

There may be reasons she doesnt want to be there. Fear of seeing her child looking so vulnerable??

However I am like you and think it seems odd and very sad. DH and I were intent on looking after my DD, I even had the staff wake me through the night to feed her (she was bottle fed as my boobs would'nt work - whole reason she was admitted was she was starving).

Fingers crossed baby comes home soon

28 weeks ain't very prem????

I'm sorry but it IS very premature and babies born at that gestation can and DO run into long-term problems. Even if they don't, it is a very rocky road to full health. My baby couldn't breathe unaided for the first 11 weeks of his life, and suffered countless setbacks, particularly in terms of his breathing. An infection or complication could have kiled him.
Two of the babies on the SCBU ward where my son was died - both born later than 28 weeks.

As I've said before, it's been really helpful to hear people's stories and has given me an insight I wouldn't otherwise have had. Perhaps it was something about the staff in the SCBU I was on, but hand on heart - there was only one mum who only visited briefly each day. When she did, she was shackled to a prison guard!

We were in SCBU in Kings where mums were made to feel very much welcome and encouraged to get involved in every aspect of their child's care. At least that's how it came across to me. Maybe things are different where she is.

also find your comment "gone into work to shop off her baby pics (not pretty as baby is all tubes and wires)" down right offensive.

Why offensive? I had a baby at 28 weeks and I know his pics weren't pretty at that stage. It felt very private to me, and at times, it felt as if it was embarrassing people when I did show them. I thought he was beautiful but I knew some people would find it distressing to see a scrap of a thing looking like that.

Just read the Carribean Thread. Is it actually true? I cannot believe that any mother would really behave like this, and the ones who responded saying "Enjoy yourself" or "She needs a break", well I am all for being supportive but COME ON!!!!!!!!

Anyway OP it sounds like your relative is in shock to me. Some people deal with things that are unpleasant by blocking them out after all the nurses said she needs to rest so in her mind that is the thing that she has focussed on to try to get herself through this. I think she needs abit of a push to be honest because for a start he NEEDS her for him to be able to get better. Newborns need to be able to smell and feel their mothers to thrive. Also when she falls in love with her baby and she will, she will feel so bad and guilty for not being there when he really needed her. If you can t talk to her is there anyone else who could that she will be less likely to fall out with? To be honest if it was me for the sake of the baby I would risk a big fall out and talk to her about it. If it even gets her up the hospital for an hour more a day then it would be worth it for his sake.

i had my dt's at 29 weeks, normal del, so no recovery period. I stayed in hosp for the max time, 12 days, under midwifery care, so I could pop down to special care whenever i wanted.

However i did feel 'in the way'. The first room they were in was very hot, i would feel light headed after about half an hour. Nurses would be coming and going all the time, checking machines, checking alarms....and tbh, i found those alarms going off very traumatic as i never knew what it was for so assumed everyone should be jumping up and down doing something....but a nurse would saunter in, switch it off and saunter out again while i was wondering which one of my boys had stopped breathing!

After i went home i would only visit at feed time (as recommended by the staff), as the babies were so little they needed the rest and didn't need me prodding and poking all the time. So we would check in the morning what feed pattern they were on, I would go in for one during the day (taking in my expressed milk too) and then go back in the evening with DH.

I simply COULD NOT just sit with them....besides which there were two of them, so which incubator do you sit next to? I felt I was favouring the active twin cos he was more entertaining and ignoring the sleepy one. I was permenatly torn.

I hated those 8 weeks, so would spend as much time resting and preparing the house for them as I could....even so it was still a shock when they came home - suddenly i had to do it all myself, i had no machines telling me if something was wrong and no nurses to tell me what to do.....defo had PND and post traumatic thingamebob....

I guess i have no advice, just wanted to tell you what my experince was like (I was also showing photos, going out with friends, talking about them constantly and my friends thought i coped fabulously - inside i was dying)

That's really interesting Meeely. Thanks for posting. I felt awkward at first - and always afraid of the alarms and machines - but once I got into the swing of the SCBU it got much easier. I had a daily routine and would go off to express/lunch. If it got to much I went downstairs for a coffee. The expressing room was pretty intimate (i.e. a shoebox) but talking to the women there I just got so much support. Talking to the 'veteran' mums also helped me get up my confidence around the medics so I could ask questions and say what I wanted to do. Despite the fact I had to ask to hold him/change his nappy/do cares etc I felt very much that he was my baby and that was that. It is so interesting to hear others experiences though.

oh and i think i had a big thing with what i was supposed to do....no one i knew had had prem babies, this was totally alien to me, so i was just kinda functioning on autopilot - like 'i THINK i'm supposed to be concerned about my babies, but they are in the best place, getting the best care so i'm just gonna look after me for now so that I am fit when they come home'.

I didn't automatically go into mother mode, i felt rather disconnected from them.....

One thought which occurs reading back this thread is - yes, I probably need to be less judgemental and more understanding - but from those who have posted saying they found it difficult to visit their baby in SCBU, many have also said they suffered from PND and/or bonding issues.

People have said 'step back/mind your own business' which I agree is probably right in this situation.

BUT I do find myself wondering if, on a more general level, mothers were given more support and encouragement to spend time and get involved with the care with SCBU babies, there might be less risk of PND/bonding issues. Many of the posters here have talked about 'feeling in the way' of 'feeling there wasn't much they could do.'The nurses at Kings constantly reminded me that, by just being with him, talking to him and getting as much skin-to-skin as possible ( I did this throughout his time on the CPAP ventilator, awkward as it was)I would be making such a difference. They referred me to studies of prem babies in Africa where, without any of the technology we have here, prem babies were saved through kangaroo care alone.

Meeely - what you are saying sounds so like the kind of things she is saying. Thanks for posting. I think I understand a lot better now.

we had lots of support from the staff, but sometimes logistics just wouldn't allow things to work properly....i did kangeroo mine, both together and seperately. When together they tried to eat each other, but when seperate i would worry i was neglecting the other - this continued on to home too, always worried i was giving one more attention than the other.....

I can almost guarentee i would have done things differently if i'd just had the one - but to avoid favourtism i would just stay away on some days......

one of them got very ill at 4 weeks and went back into an incubator in his own room, tore me apart running from room to room, so i just went home and cried......

I didn't have pnd nor did I have bonding issues, in my mind, there was no point being there all day, no one did in the intensive care bit anyway. I couldn't hold her, or feed her and she was zombied out on drugs and didn't know who was there or not.

I know it was beter for me to be fully healed and rested for when she cam home and of course, I had others that needed me far more

It sounds like your original post was making out that she can't love her baby as much as you did. It's very judgemental

If you think that, you've misunderstood me. I just agree with Amthyst that babies need their mums around - whatever their circumstances. This thread has changed my opinion drastically about why my relative isn't visiting but it hasn't changed my mind that it is important for Mum to be there for bonding etc. I am just as entitled to that opinion as to those who feel it's not as important for Mum to be with their child in SCBU, surely?

I'm going to sign off here as otherwise I'll never get any work done, but a big thanks to those who've got involved in the discussion and given me an different perspective. I feel much calmer about it all now and, I hope, I can be more understanding as a result.

Thanks again everyone.

minorityrules haven't read the whole thread as I haven't had a prem baby so can't really advise.
But my dd was in SBU and your post really helped let a ghost reasy iynwim. Thankyou

rest not reasy

Well done babyface74 - you certainly picked a topic of discussion for your first post

Actually Babyface, I don't really know if ds3 "needed" me at that time. He was woken, changed, fed and then put back to sleep which is what prem babies spend most of their time doing. He was getting my milk but I didn't have to be there to give it. This was true even after I brought him home for a while, he was near his due date by the time he started getting more active.
No problems bonding at all BTW.

Babyface, please try to understand that your relative is dealing with things in her own way and this includes becoming a mother in very difficult circumstances. What has happened is difficult for anyone to cope with. I know that you've been through it yourself but we are all different and have different ways of dealing with situations. The baby is not on its own because the SCBU staff will be looking after it. They will be aware of how often she is visiting and how she is interacting with the baby and other posters have made some good points about why she might be behaving in the way that she is. They will also be well experienced in helping mothers to deal with having a baby in SCBU. You're perfectly entitled to hold your own opinions about the kind of person she is and about her behaviour at the present time but please don't give her any indication of this because whatever impression she is giving, she is very vulnerable and needs you to be kind and supportive at the moment.

My first baby was born at 33 weeks and was in scbu. I never spent all day there, a few hours maybe. I didn't at the time, and still dont think i did anything wrong.

i was 19 and had no experience of babies at all although ds was planned (eek!). i'd had a wonderful rosy picture of rushing out to hospital in labour and all the lovely things you see on tv and the reality just wasn't like that. one day i went in for a check up, the next thing i knew i was having a cs in a hospital an hour and a half drive away from home.

i felt let down, disappointed and a failure, i was heartbroken at how things had turned out and totally unprepared. ds was transferred to our local hospital a couple of days after i left that one and 90% of the midwives i encountered there were unhelpful at best, downright nasty at times. i felt like a spare part, unable to do anything much for him. instead of being taught how to look after him i felt judged. this was still in the days when i was painfully shy, and too scared to speak up...i doubt i would have even been brave enough to ask where the loo was.

i hated hospitals (still do, but ive spent so much time in them since, ive become used to it!). the monitors made me panic (someone else mentioned that i think)..the whole place terrified me. ive always suffered from anxiety and could get myself into some states sitting there staring at him until i had convinced myself he was going to die. i just could not sit there in that room for hours..it felt like my head would explode.

i felt so useless, like he wasn't really mine. he "belonged" to the hospital. all i could think about was when i could bring him home and start being his mum.

ive never regretted not spending every waking minute with him in hospital. one lovely midwife at the first hospital found me in tears shortly before i went home and told me not to feel guilty for even one minute because he was in the best place he could be, looked after, and to go home, rest and calm down.

we're really close now and always have been. i think if dd had been prem too it may have been different, i wouldn't have felt so out of my depth, but i still doubt i would have spent all my time there. i maybe came across at the time as not caring or not taking it very seriously, i dont know, no-one ever said as much. but i think the sense of normality i felt when i wasn't in the hospital was what helped me get through a very difficult time.

i also did the baby photo thing too, i was so proud of him, i wanted everyone to see him!

My point re the pictures is that your relative probably thinks that her dd is the beautiful baby, despite all of the tubes and wires so to say "not pretty" is really quite crass.

I also think that to describe your relative as "neglectful" is inappropriate. I'm sure that her baby is being cared for perfectly well.

I appreciate that this has brought back a lot of painful memories for you but I really think that you need to reflect upon your own feelings before you broach this with your relative. Perhaps you could talk to someone on your side of the family?

I also want to reiterate again that I have dealt with lots of families who have babies on SCBU and most of the mums on the units that I have worked don't spend all day every day with their lo's. There is a huge range of "normal" behaviour in this very abnormal situation and both you and your relative fall within it.

Wishing you, your relative and the lo well .