To think the McCanns are being almost tortured by the media and the police?

[ArriettyJones]

See screengrab.

I said several days ago (on a thread here) that the letter was probably sent c/o Scotland Yard (and I wasn’t the only one to think so). If I can work that out why can’t the collective brains of German and U.K. detective teams PLUS dozens of European media outlets figure it out?

Why couldn’t Scotland Yard find a missing letter about a high profile, serious crime in their own building FGS?

How long has the delay been? Four or five days? This is cruel.

They need a new liaison officer now and the police need to pull themselves together.

Ridiculous this letter wasn't brought safe and secure.

Lillian Peadophiles operate anywhere, as HCP they would have been aware of this perhaps more than many other people.

However, i never left my baby DD alone, out of sight, not because i feared she would be abducted but because i wouldn't want her waking up alone and scared.

However, i want to make it very clear that ultimately they only person responsible for MM's disappearance is the person who took her.

@LillianGish - I really think you are blaming the wrong people here.
I would never leave my babies/toddler alone while I went out for the evening. One of them being abducted would probably feature on the list of things that could happen to them if I did but there would be 20 things that could potentially happen to them before abduction on that list. I don't care how 'family friendly' a resort says it is, the bar and restaurant staff working summer jobs on minimum wage are not responsible for making sure you don't leave your babies alone so no harm comes to them, or at the very least, they don't wake up crying from fright, as the children did on previous nights when they were left alone. That'd be enough for me to make sure I didn't do that again

There was no listening service provided as it was deemed to spread out as a resort. There were however babysitters available. Don't blame the Portugese, anyone with a brain knows you have to be just as vigilant on holiday as you are at home.

For anyone saying that it was neglect to leave a child in a hotel room, at that time many hotels offered listening services so the very fact such services existed meant there was a demand for them and that it was fairly common for children to be left in rooms. Butlins only ended their listening service in 2008, Centre Parcs ended theirs in 2017. Goodwood Hotels Group and the Luxury Family Hotels Group who operate several hotels here in the UK still run listening services. Let's not pretend that it was a completely unacceptable parenting choice totally out of left field.

There is one person to blame for the abduction of MM and that is the abductor.

@bankofnook but they weren’t using a listening service, because there wasn’t one at that hotel? So that’s a completely moot point

Leave the McCanns alone. If Portuguese police had been upfront from the start about the break-ins and attempted child abductions and previous sex attacks on the Algarve the McCanns and their party wouldn’t have dreamed of leaving their children in an unlocked apartment. They had booked a Mark Warner holiday in the belief that they were staying in a safe, family holiday environment. If Mark Warner had issued even the most veiled warning to clients - don’t leave anything valuable in your rooms, there have been a few break-ins - they almost certainly wouldn’t have done it

Christ. People need the police to tell them not to leave babies and toddlers unattended in unlocked apartments?? This actually needs to be spelled out to people and if they haven’t been told then they can’t be blamed for anything that goes wrong by them doing so? Jesus wept.

Forming opinions on the case based on what is reported in the media doesn’t help them. Infact, all this speculation is likely to be doing them more harm than good. Leave it be.

The only sympathy I have is for Madeline herself, she. Has most probably suffered a damn site more than her parents have!!! I have a daughter the same age and I was a lot younger and not professionally educated like Kate and Gerry. I lived in a council house and struggled to get by, do you think I would have received all that sympathy and no blame? Not bloody likely, I would have been crucified in the media, by the police and by social services!

I won't ever understand how a mother or father of any walk of life could relax and drink with such young babies unattended. That includes all of their group.

God les Tricoteuses are out in full this morning. Honestly, you are just regurgitating the same, tired, self congratulatory nonsense.

It's like going back in time. Does anything ever change on Mumsnet?

I don't have children so maybe I am not a valid contributor.

I find it bizarre that three small children were left in an apartment. Bizarre. I would have taken them to an early dinner had a couple of drinks maybe?& then had some drinks back at the apartment if I wanted to go out. It's more bizarre that the apartment wasn't even locked-who with a right mind does that. I wouldn't do that to my dog.

I feel they come from positions of privilege and frivolity where everything is rainbows and flowers and nothing bad happens and were complacent.

Someone upthread made a valid point that 13 years have passed and new parents may be visiting the whole case for the first time,so may want to discuss it

@wewillmeeetagain

Karen Matthews didn’t help that opinion being formed did she?

It's all very well everyone here backseat parenting and saying what they would or wouldn't have done. It doesn't change the fact of what happened. The McCanns did what all of us do every day - they made a parenting decision based on level of risk vs benefit. Most of us are lucky and it works out, they were not. They don't deserve to be crucified for it and they did not deserve ti have their daughter taken.

A thread about them being tortured by the police and media forget to include the trial by social media they've been subjected to.

I think people fall into two camps when it comes to the McCanns - the I would never do that (ie that would never happen to me) and the There but for the grace of God go I. No need to say I fall into the latter group, I never left my kids (my youngest is the same age as Madeleine) before (I don’t think anyone would after), but then I never holidayed in a group until they were much older and then only in large properties where everyone was staying in the same house. I can easily imagine how being on holiday with friends and wanting to meet up with them after the children were in bed they might have come up with this plan and how staying in a Mark Warner resort might have lulled them into a false sense of security. Blame them If you must, I’m sure they blame themselves and would give anything to turn the clock back. But that’s still no excuse for the woeful performance of the Portuguese police in trying to pin her death on her parents to avoid having to reveal other criminal activity that was going on in the Algarve and wasting time that could have been spent trying to catch the real culprit (who has continued to offend it would appear). I think the McCanns haven’t wanted to accept Madeleine is dead because they haven’t wanted to people to stop looking for her and find out what happened - I like to think I would have done the same if it had happened to me. They used every contact they had and every means they knew to keep her in the public eye - it’s true that not everyone could or would do the same, but I can’t criticise them for it. Which of us can say we would give up on our child?

they were operating their own baby-listening service

I thought they were just taking it in turns to do periodic (half-hourly?) checks round the children's rooms? The only hotel/resort baby listening services I've come across involve constant audio monitoring of a room from a central point, with the parents contactable if anything is heard/seems to be amiss. I don't know if some also offer periodic physical checks as an additional safeguard?

"I won't ever understand how a mother or father of any walk of life could relax and drink with such young babies unattended."

That used to be quite acceptable. I can remember being left in hotel rooms, in the 70's. I left my DD outside of shops in the 80's/90's. When K&J did it, it had started to die out. But many still did it and felt that if they had a good sleeper, it was safer to leave them, than use a unknown babystter, or let everyone in the hotel know that they were left, because that would bring risks.

Every 'can I pop to the shop/school' thread on here still gets many saying 'yes'.

I can remember, a year later the murder of 15 year old Scarlett Keeling, if it wasn't for the Mother, her murder would have been passed off as an accident. The language and reporting against the family was in total contrast to MM's. They were vilified.

Regardless of the circumstances, there should be a level of empathy towards K&J. How many people of murdered children have memes, jokes and board games making light of the disappearance of their 3 year old?

Ben Needham's family haven't had to suffer the same.

Then there's wider family and the twins, who are now 15. It would be fantastic if they can know the truth before they are full adults, because all this crap and lack of compassion will affect them.

There's something missing in people to not feel some sympathy towards the Mcanns.

I think it’s really odd that any comment regarding the parents setting up a business bank account to funnel charity money in with in days of the child’s disappearance gets deleted. Any one can fact check this

@BankofNook - but when does a parenting decision turn into neglect? Some parents might make the decision to not brush their child's teeth or make them go to bed. Some might not supervise them playing on the road. Some might not put sun cream on them. Some obviously leave their babies alone in a strange apartment in an unfamiliar place so they can go out for the night, because they weren't warned by summer staff at a holiday resort that this could be dangerous At what point is it just an 'error of judgement' or a 'parenting decision' and at what point is it not ok to minimise it by calling it that?

I’m expressing dismay at the way this letter business has been handled ok then

I express dismay.
You gossip.

On a par with:-

I prepare.
You hoard.

I think it's more complex than that. There are more than two camps.

No, I would not leave my child alone. I didn't then, I wouldn't now. So, yes, I think they were wrong, but my god they know that themselves now and have paid a price higher than anyone could ever imagine.

No, I don't think the police were wrong to focus their attention on the families at the time. That's what they do in every abduction/murder case, because it's statistically more likely to be a family member.

Yes, I think a lot of the UK press went down the "ineffective foreign police" wormhole. Twas ever thus. (See Meredith Kercher)

No, I don't think the McCanns are wrong to throw everything they have at finding the truth. Wouldn't we all?

Yes, I think at times they have been very badly advised. Their litigation is seen in some parts as an admission of their own involvement and an attempt to silence the truth and any opposition to them as a family.

Would I do the same if people were talking about me like that? Sure I would.

There are people on MN who think they are guilty. Should they be allowed those opinions? Absolutely.

Do I agree with them? Absolutely not.

There are people on MN who will never waiver in their belief the McCanns did nothing wrong. Should they speak (as it always seems) on behalf of the McCanns? No, they shouldn't. (It's very similar to the Meredith Kercher case, there were posters so heavily invested in Amanda Knox, both for and against, it became quite weird)

Has it, at times, turned into a class thing? Absolutely.

"I won't ever understand how a mother or father of any walk of life could relax and drink with such young babies unattended."

I think every parent has done something that could lead to something bad, maybe not of the same magnitude, even if they would never admit it or recognise it.