People who 'hate confrontation'

[TooMuchCoffeee]

NC for this as don't want it linked to my other posts.

AIBU to think that just because you don't hate confrontation (i.e. you stand up for yourself), that doesn't mean you love confrontation either?

I've been told by various people in my life that they 'hate confrontation' as a way of shutting down a disagreement. Usually with a pointed look in my direction. Some of the more abusive arses have gone as far as to say that I'm 'argumentative'. My view with these people is that they're conflict avoidant because they're unable to communicate effectively and they want everything their own way. As soon as someone (me!) disagrees with them, I get accused of being argumentative, causing an argument etc etc. It really gets under my skin and brings up a lot of hurt from the past when I didn't feel heard and couldn't express my feelings.

To be clear, I'm not some gobby cow that goes around picking fights My question is, in this context has it been used as a form of control to shut me up and do as they say? I don't mind when people disagree with me and I try and see it from the other perspective. I had an ex who the one time we had a disagreement (he overstepped in my professional life and I said not to do it again - no shouting or swearing or anything), he walked out and never came back. His excuse later was 'he hates confrontation', implying I was the problem for disagreeing with him. I was constantly to blame for 'causing arguments' in the house when my brother and I lived at home when I would point out the golden child sat on the xbox all day and paid no rent while I was running round doing everything. But no, the problem was me saying anything as that 'caused arguments'.

I have friends where we can sit and debate, throw ideas around, disagree on fundamental things but actually enjoy exploring the opposite side. Neither of us are trying to change the other's mind, but I think rational debate and seeing other perspectives is a good thing.

Unfortunately I have had and still do have, certain people in my life who think 'disagreeing' is bad. Men who I assume think women should be seen and not heard, and women who follow them like good little girls.

AIBU to think that just because you stand up for yourself that doesn't mean you're 'confrontational', as if it's a bad thing? No one likes some who argues constantly, but no one likes a wet lettuce with no opinions either. Just because you're not a wet lettuce that doesn't automatically mean you're the other extreme?

You can be a happy medium with a backbone that still gets along with people as long as you don't surround yourself with controlling abusive dickheads?

As you can tell my past experiences of being silenced have really confused me. I was hoping some straight talkers here could give me some clarity.

I've started thinking that the relationship was only 'perfect' because I tend to go with the flow and let the other lead. Once I broke the status quo it no longer worked

This is absolutely my experience too.

Same.I don't mind being extra-empathetic and/or understanding with people who are sensitive to it but that is the extent to which I'm willing to compromise. I actively avoid people who shy away from confrontation because it makes it impossible to address anything even just mildly uncomfortable heads-on. It is bad enough at work but I refuse to deal with people like that in my private life.

The consequence of avoiding confrontation always seems to be a lot of rug-sweeping, poor communication, and ill-adjusted behavioural pattern. Even then, I don't have the energy to fight social convention at every corner, so sometimes I'm probably more of a doormat than I should be. For example, when DH's best friends repeatedly mentioned that they had welcomed me with open arms. The reality was that they refused to speak to me and actively ignored me when we met - which carried on for months. They treaded that "open arms" story out for a number of years and at some point, when they were particularly insisting on how well they treated me in relation to why the were now ignoring a different friend's partner, I reminded them how it actually went. No accusations, just a summary. Anyway, they no longer speak to me, because that one sentence ("Actually, you did the same, didn't speak to me and turned your back to me") was apparently aggressive confrontation.

Admittedly, at this point, I am happy to have them out of my life but DH probably would have preferred for me to keep quiet. On the upside, I became the baddy they bitched about me to the friend's new partner they were ignoring at the time. She is a great woman and we are now best friends, so that worked out!

It's perfectly possible to be assertive without being seen as argumentative.

All of your langauage about people that don't agree with your approach is patronising and dismissive while placing you as the victim ' abusive arses unable to communicate effectively, people who think disagreeing is bad ..men who think women should be seen and not heard and women who follow them like good little girls, having a backbone is only a problem if surrounded by controlling, abusive dickheads, wet lettuces, I hang around people who lack communication skills and emotional intelligence and their reactions are toddler like and lack critical thinking'.

That's not about you feeling not heard, that's you thinking someone not 'hearing' you is abusive, stupid, childish, immature, misogynistic etc.

@acatcalledjohn I'm a middle aged GC feminist, this OP has nothing to do with womens voices or JKR, weird that you'd try to insert it in this thread tbh.

I'm one of those that hate confrontation but it's less in a controlling manner and more because I'm afraid to disagree - I lack confidence. I would rather be quiet, get upset or worry than have my opinion and thoughts be heard. I hate being like it.

Beatingthisthing I don't think I said my experience and examples apply to everyone who is conflict avoidant. There have been a number of replies from people who don't like confrontation and have said why, and that's ok. The two men in my life who have particularly hurt me with these comments I do believe do it to assert control and try and shut down my own assertiveness. It doesn't mean I think everyone who behaves differently is wrong. I don't even think the examples I used are necessarily wrong, I'm just trying to reflect on my own feelings about it from all angles.

Well, I feel it is women who get shut down a lot more for having an opinion. I know I have. Men don't seem to get told they are argumentative anywhere near as often. That's the only reason I used the JKR example.

To illustrate: Jonathan Ross spoke out in support of JKR and if you look at the tweets in response to that, they are much more measured in tone.

And that translates to other areas of life. I've been told off for calling out a male colleague for doing something behind my back despite explicitly being told not to. Apparently that was rude. Going behind my back, however, was perfectly acceptable.

If your experience is different then I'm really happy for you. For me, however, it's not.

I know my last paragraph sounds a bit PA, but really it is not. Simply my experience and glad that not everyone has that experience. Leaves me with hope.

@acatcalledjohn what's that saying? 'where men are considered assertive, women are considered aggressive' or something

It's a bit of both really OP.

I grew up with a fear of conflict and am still a very anxious person thanks to the erratic behaviour of my mum. I don't necessarily enjoy conflict, but I stand up for myself when I need to. I also a job which involves having very challenging conversations with people and I in no way shy away from those.

That being said, there are somethings I just don't want to talk about in certain contexts. I don't want to share with everyone, I just don't want to have those conversations and the fact that I don't want to talk about them deserves to be respected as much as the person who does want to talk about it. I have a colleague who believes it is appropriate to have hours long debates about things and it's just draining. They only want everyone to agree with them and it's also a waste of work time.

You come across as very critical for people who have their own opinion which is different to yours. Yet you are complaining about them not respecting yours, while you do not respect theirs.

And that's okay OP. But I never said you were saying it applied to all 'conflict averse' people, not at all. But that is what was implied by you about your personal experience and your thread about 'conflict averse' people and your views about them lacking intelligence, communication skills and being immature or misogynistic etc.

That is what you said. If you said '2 men i've known' had this attitude and i've extrapolated that to mean everyone who doesn't want to argue with me is abusive or stupid...that would be a different thread.

But you're not saying it's just them, but others of both sexes and in different areas of your life so that suggests a personal issue which may be about your personal interactions in work/social/family interactions rather than the general observation you wanted to make about 'people who hate confrontation'.

@Fatted it's not really about me being critical of people who "don't like" confrontation, it's more those that imply I do like it and attack me for it. Admittedly my disdain for the two people in my OP probably shines through but I certainly don't think everyone is like that.

One thing I've found, OP, is that people who feel they haven't been listened to or 'allowed' to have an opinion can sometimes come across as aggressive when they finally speak up.

I'm like that, I suspect this is because my abusive F used to say I was 'argumentative', mainly because no one was allowed to disagree with him on any subject. The only party we could legitimately vote for was Tory, as far as he was concerned. I never have voted for them in my life, and neither have my DM or my siblings. So his strategy was a major fail basically.

It's an unconscious thing. But also, if you feel that you're being made to feel that your opinion doesn't matter, the instinctive reaction is to either avoid confrontation or respond aggressively (I've been guilty of both).

@TooMuchCoffeee

I roll my eyes out of my head most of the time when I read on MN "I hate confrontation".

Because it's normally said by people who mean 'basic communication'.

"My neighbour keeps leaving our shared gate open, shall I put a note through their door because I hate 'confrontation'?"

No, just act like a normal human being and ask if they wouldn't mind closing it

And yes, I know a lot of MNetters suffer from anxiety but that's not what we're talking about here.

On a professional basis I think it depends on the situation and how carefully you chose your battles. You don’t get taken seriously if you have a reputation for being difficult to work with and arguing the toss all the time. In fact people will actively avoid you because they know you’ll just go into one. Where I work ( medical research lab ) they are looking for co-operation and commitment in the current task to find a vaccine and or effective treatment. Adopting a confrontation stance when being asked to work late or all night sometimes is the last thing anybody wants. In fact it will count against you when things return to normal.

@Mittens030869

One thing I've found, OP, is that people who feel they haven't been listened to or 'allowed' to have an opinion can sometimes come across as aggressive when they finally speak up.

I'm like that, I suspect this is because my abusive F used to say I was 'argumentative', mainly because no one was allowed to disagree with him on any subject. The only party we could legitimately vote for was Tory, as far as he was concerned. I never have voted for them in my life, and neither have my DM or my siblings. So his strategy was a major fail basically.

It's an unconscious thing. But also, if you feel that you're being made to feel that your opinion doesn't matter, the instinctive reaction is to either avoid confrontation or respond aggressively (I've been guilty of both).

This is where my confusion lies @Mittens030869 and really why I posted. Due to my family life, I felt I wasn't heard or allowed to express feelings, but aggression didn't work at all either, there was really no point and only fed into their opinion that I was wrong.

As a result, I developed ways of being assertive in a gentler way, normally making light of a situation and laughing/smiling. Picking my battles so letting most things go, and being very aware that I may actually be wrong and constantly questioning and being open to other opinions.

Obviously not everyone agrees all the time. The comments that have really stuck with me and hurt are the ones suggesting I'm aggressive or somehow enjoy confrontation. I hate it, try and approach things in a non-aggressive way in order to avoid a row, and there's this constant inner conflict between hating the feeling of being unable to speak up and also hating the idea that someone thinks I'm aggressive. I think in my examples it really was done to stop the conversation dead, rather than everyone who is conflict avoidant using it in that way.

*constantly questioning myself!

Sometimes people want to avoid a potential confrontation/argument because the subject under discussion just isn't that important tothem; very frustrating OP I know.

On a personal side, depends how I feel or how much Prosecco I’ve consumed. If one of my friends starts banging on about Brexit or what a cunt Boris is then I’ll get bored pretty quickly but if they want an honest discussion about education , the environment or health service funding then ok I’ll argue my corner effectively. I do remember having a very lively conversation with a virologist in a Scandinavian sauna , we were both stark bollock naked at the time. I didn’t notice his willy at all

I hate confrontation: no one I work with would believe that because I never shy away from it when necessary. One of my arguments with a notoriously difficult consultant is semi legendary, as I refused to back down and we ended up in an actual shouting match outside his office which apparently looked like it would become physical according to observers (it wouldn't have, but he is not used to people responding to his attempts to intimidate them into ending the discussion with a refusal to shut up and go away and he was incensed).

My dad used to tell me whenever I challenged him that I opened my mouth and let my belly rumble which meant "you argue with me and this pisses me off and you should stay quiet".

Interestingly, my friends don't think I'm a combative individual, probably because my friends don't speak to me like an ignorant piece of shit and are able to have a conversation in which we heartily disagree without it becoming a character assassination :)

My dad used to tell me whenever I challenged him that I opened my mouth and let my belly rumble which meant "you argue with me and this pisses me off and you should stay quiet".

Wow.

I've always been taught I have a voice and have only encountered the "shut up" attitude in work & consumer settings. Reading the above makes me very grateful.

to all of you told to shut up by those who should have taught you to have and use your voice.

acatcalledjohn It's ok, my Dad is a self identified feminist and 100% believes he is an absolute ally and has spent his life striving for equality and that he brought me up to be a strong, independent woman . He doesn't recognise at all that he is a very sexist man who cannot bear women, let alone women younger than him, having a different opinion and sharing it. The man has tried to lecture me on how to do my job despite never having worked in this or a related field or having any qualifications in it or anything related to it, told me how much more than me he knows about childbirth, etc etc etc. He is so painfully lacking self awareness that it is actually funny.

There's a few things going on here. Using "I don't like confrontation" as a smokescreen to gaslight others and make them look bad in the face of an arguement you don't want to lose or compeomise on.
There's people who "don't like confrontation because they don't feel emoowered to stand their ground. Not healthy. There's being assertive enough to stand your ground but being made out to be aggressive by others. Then there are the aggressive ones that live life on the war path and expect others to concede to them pretty quickly (and may go on to gaslight in the face of a challenge)

Quietly assertive with an ability to understand more than one point of view is a healthy way to go through life.

I ageee op. I don’t want or like confrontation but I won’t shy away from it if I need to state my case or opinion. I find those that bend in the wind on everything a bit wet .

@CoffeeAndWhisky
Hah! My in-laws trotted out the exact same line (and also that they “bent over backwards for me”) when in reality, I was ostracised, ignored, and treated very differently to BIL when I entered the family.

MIL refused to acknowledge the lies she kept telling about the situation because she “hated confrontation”. I confronted her anyway. Now they refuse to speak to me too very, very strange.