To pay this angry man for work not done?

[sillywoman456]

Basically, I've been a complete and utter fool and yesterday was doorstepped by a man working at my neighbour's house. He said I needed some work doing to my gutters, said he'd do it there and then, didn't appreciate me saying that I'd call my DH and discuss with him, and insisted that I do it and pay him the amount by balance transfer (because I at first said no, using no physical cash as a reason). My neighbours (who I previously got on well with) were with him, vouching for him and insisting that I needed it doing because it was affecting both properties etc. It wasn't a huge amount of money (£70) so I agreed.

Believe it or not, I'm usually less ridiculous than this, but I let myself down by agreeing to this deeply unpleasant man who was patronising and offensive. I'm so embarrassed of myself.

Anyway, he spent five minutes on the roof, showed me a few bits of concrete he'd pulled out, said he couldn't do the rest because it was too rotten and gave me some bank details. Now I don't know who this bloke was, but my neighbours knows him by first name and these bank details are for someone completely different.

Today, we've been and taken pictures of the work not done and contacted him to say we'd pay half, but not the full amount because much of the work was left undone. He won't agree to this, swore and shouted down the phone and said he'll be coming round to discuss it "face to fucking face" and basically that he won't let it go.

I've contacted CAB and I believe the law is on our side, but I think I should just pay it for a quiet life and less threats of him returning, damaging our property etc. I don't want to be worried everytime the kids are in the garden for the sake of £70! My DH hates confrontation and would rather do this. But if I pay this random person named in the bank details, what proof will I have that I've paid at all? I don't want him to come round and demand more.

It's starting to feel a bit like an extortion racket! But then it's only £70! Please tell me what to do now, because I can't seem to trust myself lately!

Funny how the urgent work they find that needs doing is always on the roof, when they know that a lot of householders, especially elderly folk, will be hesitant (or unable) to climb a ladder, isn't it? It's never on the wall or at ground level....

For future reference, If I were in this situation I would say 'oh thanks for letting me know I'll give my cousin a ring, he's in the trade and can do it for free'.

Whilst that's a wonderful idea in many cases, is cleaning out gutters actually a 'trade'? If you've got a decent-length ladder and somebody to hold it for you, is it that difficult for most people to just go up there with a trowel and a bucket to clear out the build-up (or ask a younger and/or more able-bodied friend or family member to do it for them)? You don't need to clean every last trace as the rain will do that once you've got rid of the main blockage.

my standard line is always ‘this isn’t my house, I just work here as a nanny’ as that closes the conversation down straightaway and doesn’t leave any room for persuasion.

Even better: "I don't have a clue who lives here - I'm just burgling it"

He sounds like a tosser! Don't pay him! He hasn't actually done any work. Also if he has pulled a bunch of concrete off your roof and exposed the apparently rotten woodwork, I would hazard a guess that he might actually owe you money for damaging the structural integrity of your roof. If I were you I would contact a local reputable roofing company and explain the situation (omitting the payment issues) and ask them to come and take a look. If they see no issue, then you can do your neighbour a favour by highlighting that they are being scammed too!

Tell him you'll pay when you get an invoice with all his business details on.

Even better: "I don't have a clue who lives here - I'm just burgling it" grin

That is brilliant!!

OP if you are still reading ...

The law changed in 2015. It is now a LEGAL requirement that any workman coming to your house to do work MUST give you a written quote on headed notepaper with all his legal business details, for ANY work costing more than £42.

*"Under the Consumer Act 2013, if a workman comes to your home, if his charge is going to be more than £42 he MUST put it in writing and get your agreement before starting the work. Obviously, if there is water gushing out of a pipe, a plumber might switch off the mains first, but my job was not an emergency, so by law a contract must be drawn up, even if it means the workman writes it on a piece of paper provided by the customer, minutes before starting the work. (If that is the case, he also has to tell you that you are "waiving your 14 day cancellation rights.")

Furthermore, under the Supply of Goods Act 1982, he is acting illegally by overcharging." *

He's breaking the law from the get-go, let alone demanding money with menaces.

Don't pay him. If you do, you bolster his belief that he CAN go around scamming and threatening.

He's scamming LOADS of people and he does not have time to go round to all their houses doing damage etc.

Report him to the police and to trading standards.

For future reference, If I were in this situation I would say 'oh thanks for letting me know I'll give my cousin a ring, he's in the trade and can do it for free'.

I'd say "My brother/husband/dad is a policeman, I'll ask him when he gets off duty."

I feel for you OP, it's not nice feeling cornered on your own doorstep. My Dad was caught out by a this but it was hedge trimming, he got £100s out of him and he isnt a weak man but was concerned this big, aggressive man knew where he lived. Did a botch job and shit behind his shed and his it under a plant pot. Huge lesson learnt but we are all susceptible

Omg @ pooing under the plant pot

I spoke to Trading Standards, describing exactly what happened as I have done here, and they called it a 'doorstop crime' and stated some legislation which I wrote down about cooling off periods, contracts not being formed if pressured to do it straight away etc I am sorry but I find that extremely difficult to believe, unless you had an unsupervised trainee. What they have said is relevant to contract law, but is only half the story, and has very little relevance here.

Anyway, whether or not, of course I'd have to pay more for more work, replacement of rotten parts and scaffolding etc, but as none of this was done, I can't see how it's relevant Relevant as to cost - others were saying that £70 was a rip off. i said ten times more but actually it is likely to be in the thousands once you add in scaffold.

In my job, I certainly wouldn't get paid £70 for a few minutes work, so I don't think he did too badly out of it Well.. that isn't the point, as I am sure you know, and climbing up a ladder is pretty dangerous and as I have said, once you get a few quotes to sort out the problem you evidently have you may rethink your attitude here. But live and learn - i see you can fight your (totally unreasonable) corner quite assertively, so I'll not worry that my totally reasonable explanations might have upset you!!

I am not saying that he was a nice guy, and the way he behaved shouting down the phone is unacceptable, but between you and trading standards there are few lessons which could be learned too.

No, that's the whole point. It almost certainly didn't need to be unblocked. OP had no problem with it. The conman said it needed to be unblocked but offered no proof (because of course there wasn't any) the op didn't actually say that. if the gutter is blocked, water drips/gushes in the wrong places - was that happening OP? I had assumed that, to be honest, as it is usually pretty obvious whether or not there is a blocked gutter? If there was no water seapage then that is a different matter but in that case where did the concrete come from?!

Can anyone link the 2015 change in law re amounts over £42 which has been quoted above? Thanks

Be very wary next time. I had to tell one to get lost as he was being very insistent with my mum and I just happened to be there. Anyone turning up at your doorstep unannounced is dodgy tbh, criminal or scammer and anyone who insists is dangerous. Always always say no.

thisis but OP says "...showed me a few bits of concrete he'd pulled out, said he couldn't do the rest because it was too rotten".

OP should pay him for a job he didn't do?

The work might have been necessary, but that isn't the point here. Knocking on the OP's door and pressuring her into paying him to do the work right then was absolutely not on. And the neighbours involving themselves makes this a case of intimidation and that's never okay.

I live on the South Coast and my degree educated, smart, feisty, professional, never has work done on the doorstep friend for caught in exactly the same scenario. Claimed he was doing next door's guttering and could do hers as it joins up...then said the downpipe was blocked and he'd need to get some more tools..she paid him up front but she did take a photo of him on the doorstep...he even posed for it...he said that was her insurance policy and of course he was coming back...he didn't ! She was utterly mortified and shared the photo with the police and he's well known in the area, an addict looking for quick cash. He's scammed hundreds of people in my area. Even the most savvy of people can fall victim. Hope you are ok x

I would be really grateful for the 2015 legislation... anyone?

@jeaniealogy I think you are right, if it is a scam it is a scam, and for people not familiar with gutter leaks might not have known what to look for. I think I assumed otherwise here because he was working next door and continued to do so, the fact that the neighbour had recommended him but it might have been a wrong assumption

In my job, I certainly wouldn't get paid £70 for a few minutes work, so I don't think he did too badly out of it Well.. that isn't the point, as I am sure you know, and climbing up a ladder is pretty dangerous and as I have said, once you get a few quotes to sort out the problem you evidently have you may rethink your attitude here. But live and learn - i see you can fight your (totally unreasonable) corner quite assertively, so I'll not worry that my totally reasonable explanations might have upset you!!

You seem to be of the opinion that a tradesman can find and identify which jobs he wants to do (whether or not they actually need doing), strongarm the householder into having them done - and then demand payment even when he's admitted he wasn't able to do the job that he insisted on claiming.

There's nothing wrong with advertising prominently, putting leaflets through letterboxes - even knock on people's doors on spec, if you really must - but you OFFER your services and, if you're at all reputable, leave your card and invite them to think about it and call you IF they're interested.

Even if somebody does genuinely need urgent work doing, that doesn't give you the right to unilaterally decide that you will take the job - unless you're the fire brigade.

@thisisanexplanation I didn't post about the legislation, but is this what you mean?

Know your rights around the law and cold calling doorstep traders
If you pay or agree to pay over £42 for any services or goods that are sold to you in your home, then:
• You have 14 days to cancel the agreement. If you cancel, any monies that you have paid should be returned to you.
• The trader must give you a written notice of your cancellation rights when you agree the contract. If the trader doesn't provide you with this information, they commit a criminal offence.

Thank you to everyone who has commented, but I am going to step away now because despite being told I am assertive enough to not get upset, I AM upset by what @thisisanexplanation keeps posting. I don't think assertion and sensitivity are mutually exclusive.

IF I get three quotes, I won't rethink my position about a bully intimidating me on my doorstep. That just won't happen. And I assure you, whether it so 'very hard to believe' or not, that I did contact Trading Standards and they did say that. It would be a strange thing to lie about and make up some legislation to match my lie.

OP, I always love posters who call you a liar and demand citations. They must be an absolute joy to deal with in real life.

Take no notice.

OP, I think you could of wept with gratitude at the tradesman for bringing this matter to your attention, paid him triple his "quote" with a little extra, offered him tea and sandwiches throughout the duration of the job followed by a blow job on the doorstep when he was done and thisisanexplanation would have still found something "totally unreasonable" about your attitude.

What is the neighbours role in this? Are they part of the scam, or have they been intimidated into paying for unnecessary services?

@sillywoman456 it works all the time.x
Glad you got sorted- it's a weight off your mind x