To pay this angry man for work not done?

[sillywoman456]

Basically, I've been a complete and utter fool and yesterday was doorstepped by a man working at my neighbour's house. He said I needed some work doing to my gutters, said he'd do it there and then, didn't appreciate me saying that I'd call my DH and discuss with him, and insisted that I do it and pay him the amount by balance transfer (because I at first said no, using no physical cash as a reason). My neighbours (who I previously got on well with) were with him, vouching for him and insisting that I needed it doing because it was affecting both properties etc. It wasn't a huge amount of money (£70) so I agreed.

Believe it or not, I'm usually less ridiculous than this, but I let myself down by agreeing to this deeply unpleasant man who was patronising and offensive. I'm so embarrassed of myself.

Anyway, he spent five minutes on the roof, showed me a few bits of concrete he'd pulled out, said he couldn't do the rest because it was too rotten and gave me some bank details. Now I don't know who this bloke was, but my neighbours knows him by first name and these bank details are for someone completely different.

Today, we've been and taken pictures of the work not done and contacted him to say we'd pay half, but not the full amount because much of the work was left undone. He won't agree to this, swore and shouted down the phone and said he'll be coming round to discuss it "face to fucking face" and basically that he won't let it go.

I've contacted CAB and I believe the law is on our side, but I think I should just pay it for a quiet life and less threats of him returning, damaging our property etc. I don't want to be worried everytime the kids are in the garden for the sake of £70! My DH hates confrontation and would rather do this. But if I pay this random person named in the bank details, what proof will I have that I've paid at all? I don't want him to come round and demand more.

It's starting to feel a bit like an extortion racket! But then it's only £70! Please tell me what to do now, because I can't seem to trust myself lately!

We had to do the same with our window cleaner who came and waved the brushes for less than 10 minutes and claimed to have cleaned a 3 bed semi. We were in at the time so could verify how long he’d been there for 😆 He wanted £15 for streaky windows and some that hadn’t even been touched so we just said no initially. In the end we gave him a fiver and he went away. You just need to be strong @sillywoman456 and call the police if necessary.

Do not pay, remind your husband hes a grown man.

@Notcontent Yes, this has definitely been a learning curve for me too. I feel such a fool.

@looselegs That's a great response, I'll remember that.

You handled it brilliantly. Really well done. I think all of us would be really nervous after a confrontation.

But like another pp I am often wary now of neighbour recommendations. Often poor quality work.

Tell your husband to bloody grow a pair! I’m sure he’s a very nice person but he’s let you have to deal with all this crap on your own! Why doesn’t he go out there and ask this con man if he’d like him to bend over!

Did he really charge you £70 for literally just 5 minutes work?

I agree with calling the police.

Interesting how your neighbours were insistent that the 'work' needed to be done to protect/benefit both properties, but never mentioned paying their half of the bill....

It seems to me that he quoted you a price to do a job, but has not completed the job, but hopes that although he doesn't fulfill his part of the contract, he hopes you will fulfill yours.

I may be wrong here, but I think that, in his warped scamming mind, he probably sees the £70 as 'the least you can do'. Most scammers are after a lot more than £70 per 'mark'.

I reckon that he initially deliberately chose an amount that would be achievable for a lot of people but would be significant enough to 'register' the job as supposedly serious and more than a 5-minute 'just buy us a drink' task. The £70 was just his foot-in-the-door and also partly quoted to gauge your reaction - if you'd looked hugely panicked and frightened at the thought of having to find £70, he wouldn't have wasted his time trying to get more money that you simply didn't have to give him.

His twin triggers for you were the suggested existence of concrete (as a PP said, almost certainly in his pocket all along) and the word 'rotten'. The plan was that he would mention this nonchalantly and give you a moment for it to sink in that your roof was rotten and there was a big risk of solid concrete coming crashing down inside at any moment and crushing you and your children.

Your response was meant to be terror, throwing yourself at his mercy and begging him to fix it, whatever the cost to keep your house secure and your family safe inside. The fact that you nodded your head and didn't go crazy with fear at his invented scenario probably already made him angry that he would 'only' get £70 from you.

I agree with the suggestions to tell him you need a fully detailed invoice. If you want, make something up about being able to submit it to claim against your tax bill, as the house is registered as a business asset, so you qualify for an HMRC tax-relief scheme.

Film any conversations between you wherever you can - at the very least, set your phone to record the audio.

Whatever you do, don't pay him any money. If you do, it will not get rid of him: the opposite, in fact, it will make him assume that you're 'live' and ripe for the plucking and relentlessly pursue you for more.

Sorry, I hadn't seen your update whilst I was writing my response.

Don't feel any shame or disgust with yourself - HE is the scammer (and probably a honed, accomplished one) - you did nothing wrong.

Well done for getting TS involved and for making your position clear.

You do realise he'll be doing this to old people/vulnerable people, too, don't you? Report him, for their sake if not yours.

How would you feel if your daughter contacts you when she's moved out of home and says some bloke's just tried to frighten £70 out of her? Would you tell her to just pay it?

Sorry to hear this OP

BTW if anyone has any work they don't want doing, I'll (not) do it for £35.

What a fucking bully.

You are NOT silly. As you go through life, you learn this sort of shit the hard way. Bullying people take advantage whenever they can. This sort of incident is why I am very wary of everyone I meet (ever!).

Rest assured that this kind of bully is an expert in dealing with people. Firstly he may have taken advantage of you as a woman, you probably look quite kind and unthreatening. People take advantage of younger people as they lack experience in dealing with fuckers and the fuckers know that. Also the elderly are prime victims, my PILs nearly got done by someone who came to their house for gardening and then tried to get 40k off them for all their windows to be replaced (it's a tiny bungalow and the windows are only 10 years old!).

As a pp has mentioned, never ever engage with anyone selling anything on the doorstep.

I know you feel foolish but you really shouldn't. The guy was a scam artist and your neighbour basically acted as his pimp. You need to get angry.

Same thing happened with me but more money- window painters, recommended by the neighbours. Turned out they didn't know them, they had done a shit job and they just wanted them to stick around so they could get their job done properly. They 'forgot' to mention that bit. I felt really bad- its amazing how being scammed makes you feel awful when instead you should feel angry.

@Eckhart I have reported him to Trading Standards.

You are all being very kind, thank you, I really needed this support this afternoon. I feel a bit violated, but I am relieved it's over (although in the back of my mind I keep worrying that it's not really over ... )

@Hingeandbracket There's very little that I'd not do for £35

doorstepped by a man working at my neighbour's house. He said I needed some work doing to my gutters, said he'd do it there and then, didn't appreciate me saying that I'd call my DH and discuss with him

OP, this is a very common and widespread scam, and I'm sorry you got caught. (So did I, once.)

He is not a genuine builder but a career conman. I would be very suspicious of your neighbours. Anyone can get conned, but if they're pretending you needed work done they are colluding with him.

I can almost guarantee he did not do any work, not anything that needed doing. Anyone can find something to show that looks dangerous.

Please send the photos and report to Trading Standards. They probably won't do anything but may keep his details on file. As others have said, he is usually robbing old and vulnerable people.

I am dreading Brexit because of this sort of thing. No more Polish or other Eastern European builders I suppose.

@YeahWhatevver

Stand your ground op.

These people are all bluster.

Exactly what I was going to say. Meet fire with fire, the cheeky shit.

Good luck (sorry, can't see if resolved on phone for some reason!).
x

OP, please think about the elderly that this man would terrify with this type of behaviour.

Your husband was happy for you to sort it.
Apologies, but what a wuss, hiding behind his wife.🙄

I think you should report him to the police with your photos and his reg.

He was extremely pushy and threatening towards you.

Your neighbours sound very strange too!

The elderly are so vulnerable against people like this.

So he's trying to get you to pay for basically damaging your house? He pulled out some concrete and has potentially left it in a worse state. Tbh I'd probably record any further calls, and report the fucker to the police.

Basically you agreed a sum to to go up and try to unblock the gutter, which needed to be unblocked, and he did that so far as he was able to - he explained that to you. When and if you want to get someone to sort out the things he was not able to get out, you will be paying someone a much higher price, including the price of scaffold for the workman's safety - probably more than ten times £70 if what is up there is rotten.

Basically he went up a ladder and cleared your gutter to try to save you and your neighbour water damage - your neighbour explained that to you. I am not a builder but I have done up a few properties and have enough knowledge of buildings to know how much damage can be done - a lot.

If I could get someone to climb up a ladder up our very high house and unblock our gutter (which is currently blocked) for £70 I would honestly bite their arm off.

So yes, you should pay him, tout de suite. As to what account you pay into it is in fact up to him - legally - he has the right to assignment of any monies which are due to him.

The account may or may not be his and if it isn't and you are concerned that he is not evading tax then that is a whole other issue - not relevant to whether you pay him, and to be considered by you later as to what you want to do. The same about the swearing - not acceptable but a separate issue and you need to think about what if any action you want to take after paying him.

Hope this helps. Your approach here is in fact part of the problem in relation to poor client/workman relations generally, both side distrusting each other.

OP - I hadn't read your updates - if he has accepted it all, then fine, then fine. I can also see you are upset about this, but quite honestly I do know workman who would offer to unblock a gutter, it would not to try to get you in more of a mess, to try to create more damage, it would be to offer to solve a problem.

Interesting how your neighbours were insistent that the 'work' needed to be done to protect/benefit both properties, but never mentioned paying their half of the bill.... it was the OP's gutter damaging a neighbouring property?

My neighbours (who I previously got on well with) were with him, vouching for him and insisting that I needed it doing because it was affecting both properties etc. It wasn't a huge amount of money (£70) so I agreed this is not being doorstepped, it is a neighbour introducing a workman and agreeing with the workman that a gutter needed to be unblocked.

Anyway - I have not wish to upset you further - next time if you want to say it is rented or your husband needs to take the decision so that you don't feel bulldozed, then that is your prerogative.

Well done OP. And now you know that you're capable of standing up for yourself too. (Ignore anyone saying your husband should have done it - if this post was on a feminism thread you'd be burnt in effigy for even suggesting you needed a man to do it for you ). Personally speaking I'd have preferred to have another person around as backup, so hats off to you.

I would be furious with my neighbours to be honest.

Go round and see them and say... I do not appreciate you sending round your workman who strong armed me into having work done, that he didn't complete, and then threatened and swore at me. DO NOT send anyone else round again. I can find reputable tradesmen, and yours was not one.

@thisisanexplanation I spoke to Trading Standards, describing exactly what happened as I have done here, and they called it a 'doorstop crime' and stated some legislation which I wrote down about cooling off periods, contracts not being formed if pressured to do it straight away etc.

Anyway, whether or not, of course I'd have to pay more for more work, replacement of rotten parts and scaffolding etc, but as none of this was done, I can't see how it's relevant.

The banking issue is simply that as I had no paperwork, no name or business name and indeed had not contacted this man to do the work, so I could literally have been paying anyone. I was concerned that the man May return and say he hadn't been paid and demanding payment, because I didn't have his actual details as proof.

Anyway, what's done is done and I don't think I behaved unreasonably. In my job, I certainly wouldn't get paid £70 for a few minutes work, so I don't think he did too badly out of it.

I would contact the police and let him know. Imagine what he'd be like with an elderly person on their own.

^This in spades. You really should involve the police.