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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To tell teachers bashers to go and complain to their own fucking schools

466 replies

Frozenfan2019 · 17/06/2020 12:07

Aibu to be fed up to the back teeth of ignorant comments like "do your job like everyone else" and " it's your vocation" aimed at all and any teachers who happen to be on a thread. If you have a problem with the teaching provided by your own school contact them. People commenting have no idea of the workload that the people they are trolling online might be struggling with. It's bullying plain and simple and wouldn't be allowed to be aimed at other groups.

Do you honestly believe that every single teacher in the UK is lazy? If not why not contact YOUR school about the issues you have with YOUR child's teacher instead of starting yet another general teacher bashing thread.

As a teacher on here I have to say I have never been more demotivated. I work hard for my kids at school while also homeschooling my own three like so many of us. How dare you make me feel like I am failing because you have an issues, unfounded in some cases I am sure, with your school?

They are your children take some responsibility, contact the school if you have concerns and accept that most teachers are fired for the children they each but we don't make many of the decisions. They are made at a much higher level.

OP posts:
jacks11 · 18/06/2020 10:22

@Davincitoad

I’m afraid we’ll have to agree to disagree re risks to teachers and to children. I don’t want a “race to the bottom”- I want the g’ment, education authorities and teachers unions to be acting on evidence. And considering all the risk factors, not just the virus. There is a very real risk that the damage to children- in terms of their mental health, social development and their education (not to mention the risks to vulnerable children for whom school is their place of safety and refuge, many of whom are being lost in this situation)- is far greater than the risk from the virus itself. You could be looking at many, many damaged children and children who are put off education or whose educational attainment is damaged in the long term- possibly permanently. Now, if there were no option because the risk to the children were too high, that would be one thing. But as it’s not, I don’t view it as acceptable. I’m not blaming individual teachers for the situation. I hold the government primarily responsible for the lack of clarity and leadership. But the teaching unions are also not acting well, in my opinion.

I agree track and trace is important and needs to be done well- abd should never have been halted in the 1st o place.

I heard one representative suggest that he knew better than WHO re safe social distancing- he said WHO advice was “wrong”. All he demonstrated was lack of understanding.

The data is actually quite clear on terms of risks to children. Children are highly unlikely to become seriously unwell in the event they do contract coronavirus, they are even less likely to die. One epidemiologist has put that in context- it is as likely that you will have a serious car accident both on the way to school and have the same serious accident on the way back. Put in context, weighed against the risks of schools not going back, I think you’d have to agree that from the point of view of the best interests of children they should be back at school as soon as possible. There will be some children- those with certain medical conditions or who live with a shielding parent or sibling, for instance, for whom that risk vs benefit analysis is quite different.

When it comes to risk to teachers, there is again very little evidence to suggest schools will lead to teachers becoming very unwell or dying in their droves. There is growing evidence that children seem less likely to pass on the virus- the debate is now more about the exact rate- but I will grant not as robust as data regarding the fact that children rarely become unwell. They do not, on the evidence so far, appear to be “super spreaders” as they so often are with other viral illnesses. Furthermore, when schools have opened up in other countries there has not been a massive rise in transmission rates. There has been a modest rise, which is short lived. There are, of course, individual schools where there was an issue but even then often the index case was not a child, it was frequently an adult working in the school who passed it on to others. There is no evidence from these countries that teachers have become disproportionately affected by the virus after schools returned. So, the risk to teachers is also not so significant that it is too dangerous for schools to return. If teachers want to use PPE if they have to be in close contact, thst is fine. There is, however, greater risks of transmission between adults so social distancing will be important.

There is no evidence from other countries that schools going back is going to cause a sustained population level rise in infection rates. Transient rise, yes- long-term and sustained? No. I don’t see why the UK would be alone in bucking that trend- provides infection rates are sufficiently low when schools return. Currently, that would seem to be the case.l in most areas. I would support decay to return in areas where that is not the case.

So, if it’ll schools going back is better for children, the risk of going back is low to both children and school staff, and risk of kicking off a second peak of infections is also low, I see no reason schools cannot start to open.

I’m not suggesting it will be easy l, or that all schools can open to 100% of pupils on day 1. There will need to ge additional help abd support, including financial, provided to schools to allow them to have all pupils back safely, especially if social distancing is to be maintained at 2m. But there is a lot of focus on what teacher’s can’t do by the unions- or at least that is what is coming across- even if that is not the intent.

fromdownwest · 18/06/2020 10:26

Comparing a child being cyber bullied to a judgement of a profession, and not directed at an individual is very melodramatic.

As a profession you are not above reproach, and if you can not take any level of criticism, then maybe you are in the wrong career.

Shouting down any criticism as bullying would allow anyone to proceed unchecked.

I do find that many of my teacher friends that went through the education system straight into teaching, find engaging with adults and external groups much more of a challenge than those that went from industry to teaching. That may have something to do with it?

chubbyhotchoc · 18/06/2020 10:27

Teacher hate is real. I had to deal with a parent who has 5 kids and had convinced herself that covid is a conspiracy theory between teachers and the government to give teachers a holiday 😂😂

louisthetrumpetswan · 18/06/2020 10:30

LaurieMarlow that's right, nobody knows how organisations will play things.

Organisations that haven't been supportive about parents juggling work and childcare probably won't be if said parents needed to arrive late and leave early as the usual wrap round care isn't available.

Nor if a school has to close abruptly due to a CV19 case. Or a parent has to go to collect their child and self-isolate because they have a temperature.

It is absolutely shit for everyone, especially women, that we are trapped between having no childcare and trying to do the best job possible and, as you say, likely competing with people have more flexibility for the same roles if redundancy is in the offing.

But this is a marathon, not a sprint. It's looking extremely unlikely that community transmission will be low enough to open schools full time in September. It's a dreadful thought, but a reality that we need to be thinking about.

FrippEnos · 18/06/2020 10:35

fromdownwest
Comparing a child being cyber bullied to a judgement of a profession, and not directed at an individual is very melodramatic.

Would you accept incorrect information and anger being directed at a group of people for the actions of a few?

There is a word for that as well but I wouldn't want to be "melodramatic"

"As a profession you are not above reproach, and if you can not take any level of criticism, then maybe you are in the wrong career."

Nobody has said that teachers or schools are above reproach, just don't judge the whole group for the actions of a few.
As for the wrong career, its just a snide low blow.

Shouting down any criticism as bullying would allow anyone to proceed unchecked.

The same goes for those putting out misinformation, myths and general bullshit.

I do find that many of my teacher friends that went through the education system straight into teaching, find engaging with adults and external groups much more of a challenge than those that went from industry to teaching. That may have something to do with it?

Judging a whole group by the actions of your "friends", what a surprise.

Hamsterriffic · 18/06/2020 10:44

I think the frustration comes from the huge disparity in the provision from different schools and teachers. Some teachers (all the ones on mumsnet?!) are working their socks off... others have been pretty poor. YANBU to suggest people contact schools, of course they should, but it’s not unreasonable for them to vent on here when their school isn't doing enough.
I know one of my DCs teacher’s has been having a lovely time... in his 2 minute weekly videos he tells them all about the lovely things he’s been doing in his ‘extra time’ while I’m wfh and homeschooling my 2 to make up for the lack of work provided by him! Must be nice to have some extra time eh?

fromdownwest · 18/06/2020 10:52

@FrippEnos

I get that it is frustrating, but when there are people letting your profession down, sometimes it is right to call them out. Instead, it is 'all teachers are great, are working all the hours, how dare they be challenged' mindset.

People's opinions can not be set aside as general bll sht, if they have had a negative experience with a teacher and how they have interacted with their child during the pandemic, it does not make it a myth.

Yes, it does not fit the narrative that all teachers have worked tirelessly through the pandemic.

I got called Ignorant for not knowing how a teacher works, I now get called out for basing my views on actual teachers and how they act.

understandmenow · 18/06/2020 10:53

Teacher hate is real. I had to deal with a parent who has 5 kids and had convinced herself that covid is a conspiracy theory between teachers and the government to give teachers a holiday 😂😂

I can totally believe this! Some people are bloody mad!

louisthetrumpetswan · 18/06/2020 10:56

I think the frustration comes from worry and concern about the effect that the virus is having on every aspect of life and will do for some time, and our ultimate powerlessness.

It's a very natural instinct to want someone to 'do something about it'. It's very difficult to live with the awful, gnawing uncertainty and sense of doom.

There's always been a huge disparity between the resources different families have and the approaches different schools have to teaching Hamsterriffic. But it's never been so thoroughly discussed on MN as in the last few months.

Just a thought, maybe your child's teacher is trying to be upbeat and engage the children? Him uploading a video lesson about the stresses of online teaching, the increasing number of children in receipt of FSM and increased safeguarding referrals might not hit the same note.

DomDoesWotHeWants · 18/06/2020 10:58

@understandmenow

Teacher hate is real. I had to deal with a parent who has 5 kids and had convinced herself that covid is a conspiracy theory between teachers and the government to give teachers a holiday 😂😂

I can totally believe this! Some people are bloody mad!

There are people on this site who believe equally stupid things.

Ignorance is not always bliss.

CallmeAngelina · 18/06/2020 10:58

fromdownwest, Sounds to me as if you could do with some new friends.

chubbyhotchoc · 18/06/2020 11:02

@DomDoesWotHeWants I was a bit aghast tbh. The government clearly want to get the county into billions of pounds worth of debt just to give teachers a bit of a break 🤣🤣 I think the five kids had addled her brain

FrippEnos · 18/06/2020 11:08

fromdownwest

I know that there are teachers out there, not doing much contact work.
And has been pointed out many times on many different threads stating that your DC's teacher doesn't seem to be doing much or that your DC's school doesn't seem to be doing much is fine.

Lumping whole groups together = not fine.

General bullshit (you don't have to star it out) is just more lies and disinformation about what is going on. If I see it I will call it out, what it isn't is posting genuine concerns.

You got called out for a generalised view based on your friends. Not for saying that your friends aren't doing much.

Cornettoninja · 18/06/2020 11:09

I haven’t RTFT but since you asked people to explain their reasons for voting YABU....

Parents have as much right as you do to moan on the Internet. As much as they should be taking their concerns directly to their actual schools/MP’s/whatever you should be bringing up yours with your management team/union and considering your options if you’re not happy with their response.

If you chose to engage with people on a generic platform you have to accept to a point that everyone will have differing experiences and agendas. Everyone who chooses to post on MN is under no obligation to censor their experience whether it’s reasonable or not.

My advice would be to take a break from MN or wherever else is winding you up. There are too many points of view for it to be constructive. As you rightly point out, real issues should be taken up directly with the source irl but on the internet, particularly a site that isn’t aimed at teachers specifically, you’re being unrealistic to expect all people to apply your personal situation to their personal situation. Some will and that’s great but some won’t and you need to judge whether you can be objective about the conversations on here and whether or not they actually apply to anything in your world or whether to disregard them.

People don’t come on a forum like this to have their view point changed they’re generally seeking solidarity. The rub is that a parenting website is going to attract more parents than teachers so you have to decide whether you can take anything positive from this environment.

Piggywaspushed · 18/06/2020 11:15

Just leave this here:

twitter.com/MrMountstevens/status/1273391740632924161

Piggywaspushed · 18/06/2020 11:21

I already know three teachers who have been appointed on temporary contracts, once extremely unusual.

I also know a dance, a German, and a music teacher who have not had contracts renewed.

Piggywaspushed · 18/06/2020 11:22

And DH's friend who was given a job at a prestigious boarding school ,resigned form his current post and then had the job offer withdrawn so is now jobless.

So, that is at least 7 teachers I know of in very very precarious situations.

fromdownwest · 18/06/2020 11:26

Teachers are not alone in being in precarious jobs at present, I am struggling to see what this has to do with the challenging of the actions of some teachers during the pandemic?

GazeboParty · 18/06/2020 11:27

What do the teachers that are working hard think “good” looks like with distance learning? We are told by our kid’s school not to compare schools - we are told that they believe they are providing properly for their pupils. As a parent I disagree - we are getting so very little, maybe I’m expecting too much but what is enough - what is good?

MarshaBradyo · 18/06/2020 11:28

So, that is at least 7 teachers I know of in very very precarious situations

Which sector are they in? I find it surprising they are not in high demand given the oft stated recruitment and retention issues.

Piggywaspushed · 18/06/2020 11:29

from I was responding to a PP who claimed teachers had no knowledge of what it was like to be in a position where they might lose their jobs. Which ,as an assertion, is not true.

Piggywaspushed · 18/06/2020 11:30

Secondary marsha.

Many subjects are being culled in many secondaries. the teacher who was treated badly despite having signed a contract (who got no support form those oh so powerful unions!) is a private school maths teacher. Private schools are making job cuts.

caringcarer · 18/06/2020 11:31

I have complained to my child's school, twice. My secondary child is getting very little work sent home. Maths is the worst, use mymath and 3 pieces of work on class dojo in 3 months. None was differentiated and answers sent with work for parents to mark. English is better. A lot of work set on 'Of Mice and Men', reading, chapter synopsis and character analysis and all had to be sent in to teacher.

Good job I am early retired teacher and can set child appropriate work.

I am not criticising random teachers just some of the lazy shit ones that should be teaching my child.

His friends parents have also asked me for suitable work for their children as know I am secondary teacher. It has taken me all of an hour a day to set suitable work.

iwanttobeanonymous · 18/06/2020 11:33

I agree with a PP. There are good, mediocre and bad teachers. Son's are in the mediocre to bad category - but we knew that before lockdown anyway.

MarshaBradyo · 18/06/2020 11:33

Piggy I can imagine private are making cuts in current crisis, especially a boarding school. State must be crying out for teachers if they want to switch, maths too, always needed.

I do wonder what the overall shake up will be with private v state. Private shrinking (esp boarding) but state parents frustrated with provision.

Swipe left for the next trending thread