To re-assert some boundaries with DM as we ease out of lockdown?

[BB8sm8]

DM has a controlling, smothering way with me & over the past few years I’ve been learning to tentatively set out boundaries. So examples are letting herself in to my house when I’m not there & rearranging my things, opening & reading medical letters, reading emails, referring to my children as hers & not mine & my husbands, things like that. Lockdown has meant I’ve been free of interference but now a single household can join another, I’m finding she’s back over & dominating again. If I put down boundaries, however carefully I do it, she retreats, sulks but eventually comes back round only to push at the boundaries again. This time, because of the pressures lockdown has put on all of us, my emotionally capacity for dealing with her behaviour is 0. However, as always when I set down boundaries I feel huge guilt as she has been hugely lonely in lockdown & her life is still very much on hold, apart from now seeing us. I don’t want to come between her & my children as they clearly adore her, but I cringe watching them interact sometimes as I now recognise that controlling behaviour. However, I’m now also hyper-sensitive about it & probably not letting her get away with anything. I don’t know what to do, if I ask her to stop coming round uninvited then I’ll feel terrible as she’s lonely & this is a very hard time for everyone, but I also know I’ll suffer emotionally if I have to tolerate her behaviour as it was before. What do I do?

I didn’t change the code because taking the key off her had caused such a problem the first time, I hoped that she would respect not letting herself in again when she knew that was why Id taken the key off her. But soon she was right back at it & I worried if I change the code we’d have to go through all that again. It took so much for me to put that boundary in place, then when it got bowled over I felt resigned to it. But I did think I could use the excuse of it being good security to change codes regularly. Thank you to the poster who said to you this is normal, to others this is ridiculous, & that I’ve been trained that way. I am an adult & a mother & Im desperately trying to break the cycle & not be like my Mom. I’m also torn between protecting my DC & allowing her contact.

I didn’t change the code because taking the key off her had caused such a problem the first time

She trained you to roll over by being horrible to you. Think about that.

And don't say you've changed the code because of security. Say you've changed it because she doesn't respect your boundaries. And deal with the fallout. If you really stick to your guns the reaction will be less each time. Now, because you cave, she behaves as badly as she needs to to get you to agree.

I had no option to go nc with dm. We had been for 10 years due to lack of boundaries.. And sheer nastiness.
After allowing her back I regretted it within a fortnight. Struggled on for dc's sake. Then realised she was controlling me via them and went nc again.
Ime a dm like yours won't in the long term make for an appropriate dgm.

That all sounds so suffocating. It sounds like you need to confront the issue head on rather than using an excuse like security. It's not healthy for your children to see her treating you in such an intrusive and controlling way.

Your children are seeing you being bullied by their grandmother.

If you can't do it for yourself, do it for them.

Change the code. Her lack of friends, her loneliness, her life - none of that is your responsibility. Make changes now before she gets old and needs looking after because who will be expected to run around after her? I'll give you one guess.

Woooooah, that's bonkers.

Change the key code. Today. Get a secondary lock and don't give her the key. If you need to give her access for an emergency, you change it back to the old code just for that occasion and you make sure you are clear that they key is being loaned, not given. I'm certain she will guilt trip you on this, but if she cannot respect your boundaries voluntarily, they have to be enforced!

When she tries to criticise you, shut it down immediately. Stay calm. "Ok, thank you for your opinion. I don't want to discuss it further right now as we aren't going to agree. Let's talk about x (something to do with her, perhaps, any bait you think she might take)." If she keeps coming back to criticism, just stand up and say (calmly) "Ok, I can see you only want to talk about xyz today, so let's just leave this here and talk another time". She'll sulk. But that's her choice. You need to be firm and calm, and just not take any criticism. She'll soon drop it.

Keep all visits somewhere public e.g. park, cafe (obviously not right now, but generally) or at her house - that gives you the possibility of an exit. Just don't have her in your house. If she brings it up, just casually quote something negative she's said about your house and say "so I thought this would be more pleasant for both of us" or make a positive comment about her house and how nice it is for the kids to have a change of scene.

If she's really good for an EXTENDED period of time (not just a month) then you could start inviting her in again. In the meantime, every time she knocks at the door (remember, get the code changed!!!) just smile and very calmly tell her that it's not a good time, so a visit isn't possible right now. Suggest a time (soonish) that you could come to her or meet in some public place.

You CANNOT continue to give someone this much power over you. It'll make you miserable. It'll probably drive your DH totally bonkers too, I'm amazed if he hasn't said anything! My MIL used to do this sort of thing, and it was a definite bone of contention between me and DH. It'll annoy your kids too as they get older and pick up more of the vibe, which will damage their relationship with her.

@MrsTerryPratchett

I didn’t change the code because taking the key off her had caused such a problem the first time

She trained you to roll over by being horrible to you. Think about that.

And don't say you've changed the code because of security. Say you've changed it because she doesn't respect your boundaries. And deal with the fallout. If you really stick to your guns the reaction will be less each time. Now, because you cave, she behaves as badly as she needs to to get you to agree.

Absolutely 100% agree with this. You cannot let your children see that if someone is horrible to you, you let them have your way. If you can't do it for yourself, do it for them.

I really think you need a professional to help you navigate this.

You sound like you want to maintain a relationship with your mother but you can't do that in a way acceptable to you and maintain the current status quo. If you try and change anything she will push back. A little psychic support in your corner while you renegotiate the terms of your relationship is never a bad thing. You may go no contact eventually, the ideal is she has an epiphany and changes her ways, the reality is probably somewhere between the two.

You are already guessing how to appease her by thinking how to explain changing the code. You shouldn't need to. Normal adults would understand if you abuse person's trust they stop trusting you.

I am so invested in your thread because I find my mum difficult. The best way I have found to have a relationship with her is to remember her mood is her choice...and move half a world away!

She knows. She wouldn't do it to friends. You need to stop allowing her to do it. You also need to protect your kids & not show them it's ok for someone to walk all over them. Take back the door key & put some distance in. Just because she's lonely doesn't mean she gets to treat you badly like this op xx

You know she is going to do this to your DC too when they get older? I just can’t understand the mentality of encouraging children to be around someone so toxic.

op with kindness why have you posted? You’ve just said you won’t change the keypad code. You won’t stand up to her. That’s an active choice of yours.

So by all means have a whinge. But change takes courage. Perhaps this is something you could work up to? Maybe examine why her needs are greater than your own?

Oof a lot of home truths to read here about my own (enabling?!) behaviour. Lots of comments have given me food for thought about my own role in it all. Honestly I posted because I genuinely can’t tell if I’m being unfair by, in effect, keeping her at a distance from us during what is an awful time for so many people. That’s my dilemma - it is unreasonable to do something I know she’ll hate (re-establish very new boundaries) during a really horrible time for everyone? Isn’t that just really mean, no matter how hard things can be between us? I can’t ask DH his opinion as I know what his answer would be (!), DB, who has moved country & speaks to her rarely, would say the same. But it’s me she relies on & I don’t want to be unfair, almost because we are all she has. But Christ I’m so tired of it & ironically despite how awful lockdown is (DH is a keyworker), it has also given me a wonderful break from it all because she couldn’t come over for nearly 4 months.

Your Mum sounds similar to mine, who is sadly a total and utter narc.
To this day still slags my dad off to me, and they have been divorced nearly 40 years.
I am the only person in the fam who will no longer tolerate her shitty behaviour so naturally i am the black sheep who is the one with all the mental health issues.

Stand up for yourself, be polite but do not tolerate her weirdo behaviour.

My friends mum used to do the same, just let herself in his house whenever she felt like it. He soon put a stop to it when she came by just as he was "entertaining" his new girlfriend. Daft sod

Change the key pad.
Put a lock on the iPad

Be proactive and arrange visits and send texts and make phone calls. But don’t say yes to everything.

And if she questions you about the key thing, then say, mum you were coming in when we are not at home and that’s not ok. Then don’t say anything else. And if she try’s to engage just be the broken record and keep repeating yourself. You don’t need to explain further.

@BB8sm8

Oof a lot of home truths to read here about my own (enabling?!) behaviour. Lots of comments have given me food for thought about my own role in it all. Honestly I posted because I genuinely can’t tell if I’m being unfair by, in effect, keeping her at a distance from us during what is an awful time for so many people. That’s my dilemma - it is unreasonable to do something I know she’ll hate (re-establish very new boundaries) during a really horrible time for everyone? Isn’t that just really mean, no matter how hard things can be between us? I can’t ask DH his opinion as I know what his answer would be (!), DB, who has moved country & speaks to her rarely, would say the same. But it’s me she relies on & I don’t want to be unfair, almost because we are all she has. But Christ I’m so tired of it & ironically despite how awful lockdown is (DH is a keyworker), it has also given me a wonderful break from it all because she couldn’t come over for nearly 4 months.

Really mean? No. What's mean is her trampling over your boundaries, making your life stressful, feeling entitled to poke through your house, constantly pushing for more time, more attention, nothing is ever enough.

If you are all she has, who's fault is that? It's certainly not yours.

You should ask your DH! It’s his house and his DC too! Not to mention how stressed you get about it all. I don’t know if someone has already mentioned the book ‘Toxic Parents’ by Susan Forward. Might be worth a read.

This is the PERFECT time. Because she's already used to less contact. Gradual reintroduction until you are happy with the level. It's so much easier right now. And change the code now. I'll wait. Go change it then come back and tell us you did.

Having boundaries isn’t being unfair.

Also, she doesn’t give a damn about how you feel or being unfair to you, stop allowing her to do that, for the sake of your kids.

You are very deep in the FOG OP. Change that lock code. She has no reason to let herself into your house, so no reason to get upset that you change it.

You need to pull her up each and every time she pushes a boundary even slightly, she can sulk all she wants but if she wants to see you she will behave.

It doesn't sound like you are ready to do it though. I think you need some counselling

You are all she has because she's alienated everyone else. That's not something YOU should feel any guilt about. You're being kind just by having some contact with her.

Consider the default to be no-contact, and then work your way up from there with what you are comfortable with. Protect yourself and your kids - you'll feel so much better :)

@TeaAndHobnob

Your children are seeing you being bullied by their grandmother.

If you can't do it for yourself, do it for them.

Change the code. Her lack of friends, her loneliness, her life - none of that is your responsibility. Make changes now before she gets old and needs looking after because who will be expected to run around after her? I'll give you one guess.

This, and I bet you won't get any appreciation for running around after her either.

There is a reason your DB lives in another country.

she has reminded me she’s alone, only has us as her family etc

She is the one who is threatening her access to this with her behaviour, not you for putting boundaries down she doesn't like. She is not taking responsibility for her behaviour, she just has you very well training to mildly moan at her a bit and then let her get on with doing her thing. She has you very well trained and her behaviour works very well for her. Until it doesn't, she won't change it.

Part of this will be that you'll have been programmed to be upset and anxious if she is displeased with you, or sulking, or guilting you into surrender with how you're all she has in the world. It does not hurt someone to be upset or annoyed. Boundaries are healthy things, and you're not an extension of her. A thicker skin may be a good step here.

Change the keypad code. Don't let behaviour that hurts you and your relationship with her work so well.

@TheSandgroper When you mentioned WI after cricket, I wasnt exactly sure how she would get a game for the West Indies.

Wonder if she took the key out of the keysafe and made a copy? Change the code, you will soon find out.

She is not your responsibility.
Her happiness is not your responsibility.
Her entertainment is not your responsibility.
Her having no friends is not your responsibility.

You are absolutely not being mean or unreasonable in setting and enforcing boundaries. You think you are because that's what your mum has made you think. She is way out of line. You and your children aren't there to entertain her. If she has no friends and the rest of her family don't talk to her, that's her fault and she should think about what she could do to fix that.

Have you ever asked your friends with children of similar ages how much contact and what kind of a relationship they have with their mums? That might help you get more of an idea about what's normal and acceptable, too.

Have a think about what you'd like your relationship to be like with her - what boundaries do you want to have in place? Then tell her that you've been thinking a lot over lockdown about changes you need to make to your lives, etc etc and put the new boundaries in place. If she doesn't like them, she can strop and whinge as much as she likes, but she will eventually either have to accept them or stop talking to you and find someone else to bully instead. Win-win either way, I reckon.