To think the idea that schools won’t be back full time by September is an absolute disgrace?

[LovingLivingInLockdown]

The government and teaching unions need to pull their fingers out. There should be no excuses.

The effects of 6 months out of school is going to be damaging enough, both educationally and mentally for hundreds of thousands of children. Not to mention the unnoticed abuse and neglect.

Teachers should be wearing PPE with spit screens if they are vulnerable and this should be being organised now. Temporary classrooms should be being built in playgrounds and school fields. Random testing routines in all schools should be being devised as well as guidelines regarding children’s contact with others outside of school and home. Whatever it takes, it must be done.

Our society expects parents to work while their DC are at school and if they want to get the economy moving again, schools being back by September should be non negotiable surely?

we are not yet a society without education. We are a society with 3.5 months of disrupted education.

@galesthismorning

Yes I'm aware of that. I was responding, in a theoretical sense, to the poster who said life is more important than education.

If we take that philosophical stance to its logical conclusion , we'd never send our dc to school or even let them leave the house.

Life above all else is not how society works...we balance risk

The college I work at has released reams of guidance about how college may need to operate in September. It wont look anything like it did on 1 March.

There is no scope for them to say, fuck it all let's just open doors. As long as 2m social distancing is in place there HAS to be an element of remote learning. The issue, as has been said again and again, is that there is not enough teaching staff or space.

@cologne4711

What responsibility do teaching unions hold here

The unions have been telling their members not to do anything: not to mark work, not to provide virtual lessons, not to go into school.

Anyone from a teaching union here who would like to explain what it is you think your members actually should be doing to earn their salaries, which are still being paid in full? Fortunately many/most of their members are ignoring them and doing their jobs as best they can.

Can you provide a reference for these very comprehensive instructions?

Haven't read whole thread but I agree with you OP. And I work in education.

You do realise there's a teacher shortage? Give their jobs to another professional?Too silly.

You do realise that there are practically no jobs don’t you? This will as during previous recessions solve the teacher shortage. There is also a teacher apprenticeship that allows grads to work in a classroom pretty much immediately.

Yanbu op it’s a shit show.

BUT if classes have to be bubbles of 15 unless the government backs this up with ££££££ and a national plan by definition only half the children can attend. Private schools have more money and smaller classes already.

My children’s school have opened to all of r, y1 and y6 and are happy to do whatever is possible. Opening to all with the resources that they have is quite simply impossible, however.

Even if you have underlying conditions the risk for anyone under 45 is very very low. The number of under 45s who have died barely appears on the ONS chart. All other conditions matter massively massively less than age

So it's ok for people to catch Covid in the course of their work if they don't die?

I'll ask my 42 -year old, fit, active, squash playing, healthy colleague what he thinks of that. He had Covid symptoms 6 weeks ago, was off work for 3 weeks, and still can't get up the stairs without stopping for a rest halfway. He's only back at work now because we're WFH, so he doesn't have to drive and can go and take regular breaks.

This virus is a massive unknown and some people suffer long-lasting ill effects. No-one should have to put their health at risk because their workplace will not implement safety measures.

Maybe this pandemic will highlights the abject lack of resources in many state schools and lead to some real funding

I needed a laugh this morning.

The Govt is now saying primary schools can open for all year groups right now, so long as SD applied, max 15 to a class but no extra funding...... So all private schools can reopen but few if any state schools.

What do you expect them to do ? This is a pandemic bit a dispute over how many pencils we can afford. Everyone needs to remain responsible for the health of the nation

"would you sacrifice an entire generations education to prolong the life of people over the age of 90?"
An entire generations education! Theyve missed 3 months, and might miss a few months more. Hardly an entire generations education. Look at the school day. Take out all the time fillers, all the lessons not really necessary, like art, drama, Welsh. Then sport. They can easily catch up on the more important subjects.

I don’t agree. The whole country was desperate for a lockdown and the schools to close, for very good reason. The risk is real. Keep them shut.

@Davincitoad overreact much? Why start effing and blinding at me?
I sincerely hope you're 'not in the profession' as I wouldn't want my kid taught by someone like you.

People need to realise we have to live with this virus. A lot of people are risking their lives and not complaining about it yet they're forgotten about (literally everyone in my family). They have to just get on with their jobs. Unless you are at risk (ie in the shielding bracket/family are shielding) then you should get your arse back to work. If you cannot go back to work due to a health issue then you should rightly stay away from work.

@rickoshay they aren’t shut . You clearly haven’t been paying attention to the news

It was a theoretical question @TabbyMumz

I know that's not the reality...but you said life is more important than education. So I posed the question to see how far you'd take it? .

It’s really not the teachers or the unions that have messed this up, as many have already said on this thread.

As for the idea that lightning is more likely to strike a child, that’s just nonsense

I'm in Scotland and have recently received a letter saying that our school will return in August and will be doing blended learning. Half of the pupils will attend two full days on Monday/Tuesday, the school will be closed Wednesday for deep cleaning and teacher non class time, then the other half will attend Thursday/Friday. The days kids are not in will be home learning days. The local authority has set this, not the individual school.

My child is in a new build school, very lovely to look at, obviously designed by an architect rather than teachers. It's small and not very practical but they are doing the best they can with the resources they have. The playground doesn't have enough room to be a playground nevermind have room for additional cabins/buildings.

I imagine teachers will be having to use their Wednesdays and unpaid weekends to prep ahead so that they can both teach face to face 4 days per week plus provide for home learning the other days for each group and be able to support parents providing the home learning, not every child can just get on with school work themselves.

At the moment the teachers are providing daily work plans to use at home via Teams. It's not ideal for a variety of reasons but I'm not sure what else they can do.

Im both worried about going back to school (child with social difficulties and health issues, plus my own and my elderly mothers health issues) but I'm glad there will be at least a part time introduction, not just for educational reasons. The school also previously scrapped homework so will all this adds pressure all round, it's also been helpful in letting parents know what kids are learning and where they are at education wise to be able to help.

I say all that as a full time working parent (working more than full time hours at the moment) trying to be everything to everyone around me!

It's easy to have all the answers when you're not the decision maker!

One a phone with a small child climbing on me, apologies for any typos!!

@formerbabe yeah we do. I'm fairly laissez faire and let my kids do lots of things that others would consider too risky. The thing is that when I let my 7 year old walk to school alone the (limited risks) were to himself and in my mind minimal.

Opening all schools to all pupils at this point in time is not a risk to the kids but to the wider community. That's why we're not doing it, not because coivd is a risk to children.

I don't think we will be in this state forever, I think that we will get back to some semblance of normal soon enough and this will just be a blip in most pupils education. I say that as the parent of a year 13 who has been hugely impacted. His life will not be destroyed by this however, the overall risk of missing a few months of education out of a lifetime is not huge.

@Davincitoad overreact much? Why start effing and blinding at me?
I sincerely hope you're 'not in the profession' as I wouldn't want my kid taught by someone like you

Why do some posters do this?

Davincitoad is on the internet, not in front of a classroom full of children, in case you hadn't noticed, catfeets

@walker1891 great comment. The public have ignored the lack of funding in education for years, and no one cared less because their children were in school, getting an education and they could work. Now it's all coming home to roost and schools can't open properly due to lack of funding and it's finally starting to dawn on some people that the teachers who were moaning about how bad things were in schools were right after all. Unfortunately most still aren't getting it. There is no money left. There isn't enough space. There aren't enough teachers.

No one has ever given a crap about disadvantaged children until now and that's only because it's suddenly dawned on many that their own child is now the disadvantaged one. But they're still happy to disadvantage other people's kids as long as their own is ok.

Honestly, this whole thing is a mess and the government could do something to sort it out if they were prepared to throw money at it...but they aren't. Anger directed at schools and teachers is completely misplaced. They aren't the barrier to your child going back to school. The government is.

I agree. Disgusting. There must be ways. Specific to each school. Just get in with it. The planning. Put what ever is necessary into action. No more excuses.

"I know that's not the reality...but you said life is more important than education. So I posed the question to see how far you'd take it?"
In terms of my child, I'd prefer he were alive and missing minimal schooling, than dead Does that answer it for you? I also dont want him to bring it home. When numbers are lower, I will reassess.

FFS OP kids are not going to fail their entire schooling because they missed 6-months.

For starters it isn't 6-months. It will be about 4 and months when you take the holidays out. An argument starts to lose impact when you exaggerate.

Secondly, as another poster pointed out kids miss school for lots of reasons.

I missed out most of my year 9 and year 10 schooling due to health problems and still got good GCSEs and A levels, a degree from a Russell Group Uni and a professional career.

The fact is that there isn't a feasible way to have all children back at school with social distancing measures. You can't 'build more classrooms' because you'd still need to recruit teachers to fill them.
And, even if the government was to look at ways to get more children back earlier their wouldn't be time to get these measures in place fully much before the summer holidays. Or are you proposing teachers work the summer holidays for free?

In terms of my child, I'd prefer he were alive and missing minimal schooling, than dead Does that answer it for you?

No it doesn't. Your child is not at any significant risk of dying if they have no underlying health issues.. the risk is tiny, negligible. Your child is at risk every time they get in a car...do you ever put your child in a car?

Do you think one life is worth more than the education of every single child?

It’s the wider community that will be impacted if schools fully open.
It’s still not safe to do that yet. We need to wait.

Our secondary is opening very very reluctantly to year 10 from tomorrow. Ds will be going in 3 hours a week. That's it. Nothing more. The unions have told teachers they don't have to mark books or offer feedback. The head said they've been open for key workers kids with staff on a rota, on average each member of staff has been in 1 day in the last 3 month's. Slt in more regularly. Despite the no marking, no live lessons, emails only on a Monday to link to YouTube videos/ charts, the teachers 'are exhausted'. To exhausted to work over summer, just completely spent. Unless of course the government is willing to pay over double pay for them remaining open for kids who have exams next year. Most teachers have expressed that they would work over summer if the pay doubled.

The head is also surprised so many parents are totally fed up with many reporting that their teens are suffering from terrible mental health.

I understand that opening schools to all is still too risky but more needs to done for young people and especially those at critical educational junctures.

Well I have, my husband and I have both had it. My husband had 2 days in bed and I would have still gone to work if I hadn't known it was covid, that's how ill I didn't feel.

I know approximately 10 people who have had it and their experiences were all similar.

Then you're bloody lucky, I had it (suspected as I didn't go to hospital). I can't remember the two weeks I was ill for but I do know that people tell me how ill I was. It's twelve weeks later and my respiratory system is fucked. I have a constant wheezy cough which is worse when I try and talk. I take daily meds for asthma, having not had it before. I'm doing my own rehab to try and get back to some level of fitness. I was fit before this.

Easy to minimise when you haven't experienced it as others have.