To want my money back

[Tadpolesandfroglets]

So last year I booked a catering van for a large party I was going to have to celebrate a milestone (100 odd people). It was a big deal for me as I don’t really have the money to do it but saved for a good while to hire venue and food etc. It became apparent that the party could not go ahead for obvious reasons so I emailed the company to request a refund of my deposit (nearly £200) saying politely that I may rebook once I’ve sorted out rebooking everything else but also wasn’t sure when this would happen as we are away next summer (hopefully). They didn’t reply to my email. Or the next one. I then contacted them on social media. I told them I was upset no one had got back to me and could they answer the emails I had sent? They were really quite rude and abrupt saying hadn’t I noticed there’s a pandemic on and that I needed to be patient and the office wasn’t staffed everyday (although they constantly update on FB and were still out working with a mobile van so think this is untrue). They told me only someone in the office on Mondays due to Covid so would have to wait for a reply. Immediately blocking me from making any response on messenger or their FB page. I felt a bit bad about it but had just wanted a reply to my original email and didn’t feel like I’d been impatient or out of order. I then waited until Monday and got a curt email at around 5pm asking me what I wanted to do and offering me 12 months to rebook and would I let them know. I wrote back explaining that I had let them know and I just wanted a refund, I explained my predicament once again, the venue I booked isn’t even open anymore to hold the party (it was happening in July) and too many people to safely go ahead. I explained I wasn’t sure I could rebook in 12 months as we might not even be here. I was polite but I did mention how rude I thought their Social media guy was and that he instantly blocked me and it made me reluctant to deal with them again too. That was four weeks ago. I rang early this week and was told that the boss would ring me back that day (Tuesday) He hasn’t. I then emailed giving my account details but nothing and it’s now Friday. AIBU I’m not getting my money back? should I just drop it? I realise everyone is struggling during this virus but I too have lost my job (freelance) and £200 is a lot of money. I can’t really afford to let it go but what can I do if they just don’t pay? I actually haven’t had anyone really speak to me in person about it and that seems a really rubbish way to run a business.

I can see both sides to be honest but ultimately I side with you. It’s not they’d fault there’s a pandemic but neither is it yours. It’s not your personal responsibility to keep their business afloat.

In an ideal world you would postpone it but it’s your choice not to. In an ideal world people wouldn’t get made redundant but they will...

If I’m honest I’d be worried they went bust anyway so even you waited and said yes to rebooking- who’s time say it will still exist.

Yes I feel for them but sadly for them it’s not your responsibility

I didn’t sign anything either but entered into a contract when I paid the deposit. They didn’t send me T&C’s as they are on their website.

Did you pay by credit card? If so contact your credit card company and explain what has happenend. They will apply for a chargeback and refund you. It may take a few weeks but its up to the company to then show / prove the deposit is non refunderble to reverse the refund.

Sorry posted too soon, have you checked all of their website or asked for their T&C’s. I found mine under “rules” which was a general information page but they weren’t obvious. I did ask when I booked though.

@quietheart. Like I said no terms on website unless very well hidden. I’ve looked extensively.

So if you don’t cancel are they still going to bring the van out and serve the meals you booked? Where do they plan to do this? How do they plan to maintain social distancing when people are queuing for food? Will there be only one employee in the van - can they even serve your meals with one employee? I think if you ask difficult questions it will become apparent that they can’t provide the service. Don’t cancel - make them cancel because they can’t possibly do it.

Your other alternative is to pursue the venue for losses incurred. Presumably they’ve cancelled the venue thus leaving you stuck with a catering van you can’t use.

Yanbu.

I agree their customer service seems to leave a lot to be desired but, ultimately, I don’t see that you are entitled to your deposit back as the actual service booked is still available (by the sounds of it). As others have said, that’s what a deposit is for.

The whether to rebook within 12 months is tricky - because you will lose £200 if you choose not to. But I can see why you don’t also want to give them a further £800 worth of business.

I would actually carry on pushing for my money back on the grounds that their rudeness & lack of customer service has left you unwilling to rebook with them. I wouldn’t get my hopes up at all - but I would have to keep trying in the circumstances!

I would try what @R2519 said, I always pay by CC for extra protection. That way the onus will be on the company rather than you. Maybe look at this
www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/advice/can-i-claim-back-a-non-refundable-deposit

Hi OP. I work for a small vendor that provides a similar service for weddings/parties.

For every client that postpones, and we are free on their new date - all good, nothing changes. If we are no longer free on their new date, then we refund the deposit as gesture of goodwill. If we cancel for any reason, we refund the deposit. If the client cancels, the deposit is non refundable (this is stated on our contract). I think giving you 1 year rebooking time is fair, but after that (of if you decide to cancel rather than rebook), I believe that the business should keep the deposit. However, I do agree that they sounded unnecessarily rude and could have been more polite!

I think your answer will lie in reading the contract thoroughly. If there isn't one then that will be a massive grey area.

Not sure if this is helpful, but there is a legal term called "frustration" which may be relevant here in cancelling your contract and getting a refund. Look up "frustration in English law" on Wikipedia. Sorry, I'm not a lawyer myself but I've heard it discussed by someone who is.

@myusernamewastakenbyme what is someone else tried to book them on that day but they were already booked with OP? Then they've lost a days profit

Terrible customer service and YANBU for wanting your money back, but from a business POV they have been totally reasonable in not refunding your deposit as they are stillborn for business. It was actually a gesture in kind that they are allowing you to rebook within the next 12 months, as a small business they probably can't really afford to do that with everyone.

@L777 not very likely during a global pandemic...due to this they should refund op's deposit.

still open, not stillborn*

You are possibly being unreasonable with regard to their replies to emails, depending on how long they didn't reply for, but that's not the main question. The question is the refund.

I think Molokosh above has hit the nail on the head.

I suppose since the business is only providing the van and food (the venue is another issue), then as long as it can legally do this and provide the service while complying with all rules, then, technically, you are the one cancelling.

The whole point of a deposit is usually that you are making a firm commitment to go ahead and the business has some income even if you change your mind. In these unusual circumstances, it is not entirely obvious what happens, although if no terms, then something like the Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982 probably implies the terms. Have you got personal legal advice included on any of your insurance policies/trade union membership? Or CAB, as other have suggested.

It's certainly worth arguing the point.

I think you need to clarify in their terms and conditions whether your deposit is refundable.

I don't think your should expect the deposit back as a matter of course of they are offering rebooking at a date of your choice.

That said given the struggles you've had with their customer service I would not be rebooking with them, even if I lost £200 over it. And I would write to them and say so.

Don't back down, OP. Demand a full refund on account of the fact their atrocious customer service and general rudeness means you wouldn't dream of using them for your party when you do reschedule it. I mean, why on earth would you continue to use a firm that can't be bothered to even talk to you respectfully? Yes, we are all in the middle of a pandemic and coping best we can, but the companies that will survive afterwards are surely the ones who give a shit about their customers and don't block them for making a legitimate enquiry.

As people say above the devil is in the detail. So look at the emails (if you had emails from them when booking) to see if cancellation terms are there. Lots of contract terms (I write them and just finished updating a set today) will have a clause on cancellation and the closer to the event date you cancel the more of the deposit you lose. There is also guidance from the Gov. on cancellation terms and what is fair and reasonable (in non covid times).

There are some rules of "frustration" which possibly might apply in CV19 situations but rarely and not always. Your best bet may be getting a refund on your credit card may be?

@Ellisandra

Their customer service is terrible. However, 12 months to rebook (when it is actually you cancelling, and that’s the point of a deposit) is fair. It’s not their fault that you are away next summer. Presumably it’s a birthday type date, so no reason not to do it on a different date. So I think YABU for expecting a deposit back, but YANBU for hoping.

She isn't cancelling though, the government has enforced a ban which means they would have to cancel.

I think as the party venue and catering aren’t linked YABU to expect a refund, you are cancelling the catering when they are still able to offer the service. The fact that the party venue is closed is irrelevant as it is a different company and you booked the catering independent not as party package.

There's loads of info from Money Saving Expert on this. It should definitely be refunded if it's because the government's imposed restrictions mean the event cannot go ahead -the CMA have mainly covered this because of weddings.

Deposits ARE refundable, there is no such thing as a non-refundable deposit from a legal perspective. They have to prove that they have incurred costs that entitle them to keep the deposit, unlikely in this scenario AND you didn't cancel, you were forced for the event to not go ahead.

The problem with asking on MN is that it can be hard to differentiate what is useful. That fact that some people think a £200 deposit is fair and some don't is irrelevant, what matters is the law.

www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/advice/can-i-claim-back-a-non-refundable-deposit

The business cannot keep your deposit (since there was no contract specifying a reservation fee) because it has incurred no costs for your event. It might be able to keep some if it can show that it cannot get more work, or has to take a lower paid event on that date.

Don't take my word for it- I'm a randomer on the internet. There are lots of websites about this stuff which will provide form letters you can send. You want a 'letter before action'.

If you put in a small claims county court application you would likely win. It takes time for the court to process and will cost upfront but it's not onerous.

op my sympathies but many of us are still trying to get money back from companies who cancelled (in March!) & have yet to repay even though its on their terms & conditions & the gov law is on our side (& they promise credit note - which I didn't want & haven't sent that either!) I am awaiting cash back via my bank who apparently are awaiting answer from the company & it could take up to 90 (!) more days - sigh - & this was AFTER the company initially promised cash refund.

@Bundlemuffin - frustration is not applicable.

The OP has cancelled while the provider was willing and able to provide the service. If she waited and that was no longer the case, the position might have been different. But she didn’t.

The OP cancelled. She will therefore lose her deposit and be liable to pay any extra due under the T&Cs (if there are T&Cs and they have cancellation fees). I’d find it very odd if the provider didn’t have T&Cs somewhere on the website / booking paperwork.

The service provider has actually been generous (in legal terms) allowing them OP to move the date - they do not have to at the current time as they are still technically willing and able to provide the service on the date requested (unless it is in a period covered by the current lockdown rules prohibiting it).

If the OP had not cancelled, but the service provider had, then the deposit would likely be repayable.

Frustration would be more applicable in circumstances such as if at the time of the event, lockdown was ongoing. Circumstances outside of either parties’ control make it impossible to fulfil the contract. Therefore parties would be placed in the position they would be in had the contract not been entered into ie the contract is frustrated.