When will misogyny be renounced and toppled?

[GanjaGranny]

Look at all these statues rightfully falling....
Baden Powell being decried as a bigot... much more to come....
I am so glad that something concrete will come from Gorge Floyds death.

How many would we have left if we destroyed statues of misogynistic figures? Destroyed their works?
Renamed streets?
Apologised for past offences?

....when will our time come?

2 women die every week...
where is the outrage?

Because men don’t see any virtue in abolishing misogyny.

I was once told - by a man I rated as a decent bloke - that women’s rights were a minority issue and didn’t matter. When I pointed out that women are 51% of the population, he snorted and walked off.

Well. In my uneducated opinion. Never.

Past women fought hard for rights. Died for them.
And once again women are being abused, ridiculed, threatened and losing employment for speaking up against injustice. Mainly by men.

Men hold the power because women allow them to.

Really? I think you'll find it's a bit more complicated than that.

@DestinationFkd

Dangerous ground here...... why does that apply to women but not any other oppressed group?

"It's your own fault because you're a woman" is precisely the problem......

Think about it.
Example. A woman posts on here that her man doesn't help enough with chores and kids. She goes on to say she's fed up of doing everything.
Instead of saying fuck it and refusing to do anything, even if that means the laundry has piled up, there's no clean crockery and they're wading knee deep in crap, she tackles it and carries on complaining, because she won't say no.
There are several threads on here that give prime examples of women relying on men. A recent one about how she wants him to get married, but he's clearly reluctant. Why? Why does she feel the need to be married? More importantly, why is she leaving that decision to him rather than saying fuck you pal and walking?
That's just two examples of where women have the power, but refuses to use it.

In your first example, broadly speaking, the woman will likely be judged very harshly by both men and other women if she neglects her home environment and any children suffer - the man not so much. Women generally take their responsibilities to their children seriously - why should her children suffer because her DP won't step up? So yes, she grumbles but keeps going because she recognises her joint responsibility for her children, she can't just stop doing everything because she feels it would be a potentially selfish over-reaction to her personal needs being ignored. In the extreme, in the event of a divorce precipitated by such decisions, a partner can use it against her with regard to custody issues - you may then ask why would he bother if he's not willing to help out in the existing dynamic? because a man who feels his needs are paramount will punish someone who refuses to meet them, unreasonable or not. he will the often replace the mother with another woman who will bend to his will, or expect his female relatives to pick up the slack. And they will, not because they necessarily agree with his behaviour but because the children's needs come first.

If there are not children, then the relationship dynamic must be resolved before they turn up - but even then, a man can change his view on equality when the reality of the slog kicks in. It's a bit of a no win situation, but saying to women it's up to them to force change by rejecting the "wrong" men, without a wholesale campaign to make men aware that domestic life should be a broadly equal endeavour means only half the issue is being addressed.

I haven't read the thread from your second example, but on your brief analysis is it more about her needing / wanting to get married or an examination of why he said one thing which she based her beliefs about the relationship on which he is now going back on without discussion or cogent reason?

@DestinationFkd

White people hold all the power because black people let them.

Really??

@OldQueen1969
This is exactly what I'm saying. Women are so frightened of being judged on what they don't do rather than what they do.
Why? Why should they care about what others think of them, rather than take a ' fuck you pal ' stance.
Until they do, the situation will never change.

I have no idea what you're talking about @freekitties
I never mentioned black and white. I'm on about women and men.
Regardless of colour 🤷

Never.
Too entrenched at every single level of life. Men ? As said turkey and Christmas. Women ? Far too many like things the way they are,from every generation and walk of life, to do what would be necessary to make meaningful change/topple misogyny

It's not about being judged as a person - it's about the ramifications . If it is perceived that you have neglected your children, your access to them and relationship with them may be severely negatively impacted - which hurts both the mother and the children.

In family court cases the rights of a father to have contact with a child are rightfully protected, however even when a woman is rightly concerned about potential neglect or abuse issues , or can prove that contact isn't routinely with Dad but with whomever he sees fit, his right to contact is upheld and the woman must under threat of sanction facilitate it, sometimes even when there is evidence that it will be harmful to the child or even against the child's will.

You can't force a man to have contact with his child unwillingly - and honestly who would want to expose a child to someone who resents them and may not treat them well as a parent should. However you can force a woman to give him the opportunity for contact regardless of her feelings and knowledge of the family dynamic and her children's best interests.

This is one example of why a woman may fear judgement of others - the real consequences of just saying "Fuck it" and then having a fraught relationship with one's children when allowed to do so, also incurring their judgement and potentially damagin ghte relationship with them irreparably.

@Abitofalark

Agree with Cherry Valanc, It was noticeable in the media that articles about same-sex marriage were, with rare exceptions, accompanied by photos of male couples - the publicly funded BBC included. That campaign was really about men, even though women joined it. The co-founder of Stonewall even stated that recently in an article about the implications of trans.

Yes. Not only that I was taking about the referendum campaign in Ireland, so it wasn't just one country focusing on men.

@DestinationFkd

You can’t understand how the 2 statements are similar?

Men have all the power because women let them.

White people have all the power because black people let them.

You do understand what the patriarchy is ?

Oh stop it @FreeKitties
This is about misogyny.
Leave the other stuff to the other, relevant threads.
Not every bloody thread has to have BLM stuff dragged into it.

There is a parallel though - if women suffer misogyny and are oppressed by the system of patriarchy why is it their job to change that? Why aren't the oppressors listening and acting? And black women have the double whammy of race and sex. Many of these issues are intertwined.

Because only they can change it. Men won't act on behalf of women, or very few will.
Actions speak louder than words, so until women act then it won't change.

I am really really disappointed in the amount of people on SM (my FB) who have come out as casual/unconscious/conscious racists

Sorry wrong thread

Oh I knew some of you would come along and put it well - I've been trying to articulate this for the past week in my head.

Thank you ladies.

Never, is the honest and very sad truth.

The more I think about this the tetchier I'm becoming. All women are affected by misogyny and systemic injustice.

Despite equal opportunities enshrined in law, an employer can deny a woman a job out of fear that they will need maternity protections as long as its not explicitly stated. You can't prove that an employer has discriminated but usually you can tell. You can't force people to lose their internal prejudices but with the right information and education and examining the root of those prejudices nothing will change. And it must start at the top with the removal of obstacles to women progressing high enough up the ranks to inform and change the process. While women are being told that it's their choice to care for children or other family members in need and tough if it affects their career / life in general, knowing full well that as a woman if you don't take on these responsibilities it is likely that the person needing care will suffer due to lack of alternative provision, rather than addressing that society as a whole needs to be more equal, it is unlikely that women will be available to effect further meaningful systemic change anytime soon.

WC Men got the vote in 1918 act. They came back from the war unable to vote.

I've been thinking this all along OP but not said anything because of being accused of whataboutery.

I’ve felt this very strongly. I know that black lives matter like I know my own name, and it infuriates me that misogyny is completely normal and taken for granted. I don’t see obvious differences between the two things.

Misogyny will end when it starts to affect men.

It never will.