A response to JK Rowling

[Hjft]

J.K. Rowling, like so many others, has recently been accused of transphobia and targeted for expressing some of her opinions on sex and gender. This is a very nuanced issue which many people struggle with, including members of the trans community. Assuming bigotry and shutting down debate is not the way to address these issues. Instead we should engage in reasoned debate in order to better understand the subtitles and find a way to live together with mutual respect.

On 10 June 2020 JK Rowling wrote about her reasons for speaking out on sex and gender Issues ( www.jkrowling.com/opinions/j-k-rowling-writes-about-her-reasons-for-speaking-out-on-sex-and-gender-issues/ ) . It is a welcome calm voice in what she calls a toxic environment and I commend her bravery for standing up to the bullies. The essay explains eloquently what she believes and why she holds the opinions she does. She opens up about some very personal issues, and I hope all her detractors will read it before shouting her down.

An essay, however well written, carries a bias, and a reasonable author will recognise that bias and be willing to consider that they could be wrong. And so should the reader of an essay. By writing this essay, JK Rowling has exposed some very valid points which the other side of the debate wish to brush aside. However, she has also indicated a bias which I hope to address.

She conflates sex and gender, and she conflates the law and medicine. Firstly she worries that trans activism is ‘pushing to erode the legal definition of sex and replace it with gender’. This legal definition is for the protection of the civil rights of trans people and has no bearing on biology. Trans people still receive healthcare appropriate to their individual biological truths. Every trans person is acutely aware of their biological sex because it is incongruous with their gender. Remember when Harry Potter uses Polyjuice potion to take on the form of Goyle in ‘Chamber of secrets”. He does not stop being Harry. Now imagine if Harry had got stuck, and had to live his life with everyone believing he was Goyle. It would be intolerable for him and would likely lead to mental illness or worse. This is what it’s like for trans people, and why the law is in place to protect their right to be their authentic selves. Being Harry is ‘not a costume’.

This conflation is further illustrated when she expresses alarm that ‘A man who intends to have no surgery and take no hormones may now secure himself a Gender Recognition Certificate and be a woman in the sight of the law’. Again, this demonstrates a conflation of law and medicine. If a trans person can find relief from their gender dysphoria by permanently expressing themselves in an authentic manner then why should we expect them to accept medical intervention in order to get legal protection. Imagine you have a migraine. If sitting in a dark room with a glass of water provides you with sufficient relief, then you shouldn’t be expected to take strong pain killers or accept brain surgery. The ‘man’ she describes is not masquerading as a woman - she is living her authentic identity as a woman. The law protects her rights to do so. She is not a predator, and it should not be assumed that she is. Without these rights, her transgender status would be revealed every time she tries to hire a car, or open a bank account, and it is her safety that is in danger. A man masquerading as a woman is not able to legally get a Gender Recognition Certificate - because they are a man.

[redacted*] I hope JK Rowling’s essay will mark a turning point in the tone of these discussions, and people can start to properly address them.

• [edited by MNHQ to remove inflammatory content - we're allowing the challenges to this section of the OP to remain]

I am sure that you researched the person who’s thread you posted who tried to tell an ex prisons governor she had no evidence to back up any of her opinions.

twitter.com/hotchkissrhona/status/1227988174166728707?s=21

Obviously, this person has in the past discounted any dissenting opinion without checking their own facts. Why should we believe their views now. They are a business person who has made a specialty in social media. Supposedly under the guise that they are an expert at exposing misinformation yet seems to perpetuate it.

What I meant was if someone is born female and presents as a man, then they will be treated as a man unless there is some reason to not to. And vice-versa. This treatment is of major significance to a trans person

But isn't this the nub of it? There are LOTS of really really very good reasons not to treat transwomen as women.
Jobs, sports, single sex spaces, refuges, prisons to name a few.
So, from my perspective, I don't really care about the hurty feelings of transwomen. I'm not sure I even believe in the whole concept of it tbh - there is no accident of birth, there is no born in the wrong body.
There may be some people who genuinely believe that they should have been the other sex and they likely need professional help with this. Not access all places and for the rest of the population to take part in their delusion.

Again, Rowling cites the abuse she received - which is awful - but makes no mention of the abuse she unleashed.

I am sure she would apologise fr the abuse she unleashed, if someone could show her where the abuse is in her statement?

That was a very very long way of saying 'budge up women, be nice. And believe me when I say TRAs are not trying to take away womens rights, despite the fact that they are activey campaigbning to..take away womens rights'

That said, at least he tried. Better than screaming bigot ad running which is usually what it is.

I disagree with him on near everyone of his points tbh. But he is entitled to an opinion. I wish more people from 'the other side' would actually..communicate.

Thanks for posting that chocolate. It's worth a closer look
medium.com/@dave_45588/response-to-andrew-carter-re-j-k-rowling-pt-1-50e6e02a911e

Although this link does pick her evidence apart somewhat.

Err, I must have read something different to you tbh. Her argument has not been 'picked apart' even slightly.

Though again, better to read both sides. Usually its one sided as the response from genderists is 'stfu bigot'. Much much better to lay out his thinking like that. I disagree with him on a lot..but this is the way to do it. Not threatening rape and such.

[arf] at Chocolate's "informed" challenge.

That is a complete load of bollocks. I could take it down point by point, but can't be arsed because anyone who has read it and agreed with it is obviously short of a brain cell or two. The figures on violence, prison and suicide have been disproved many times.

Even if it was factually correct (which it isn't) the references to JKR's "victimhood" are unforgivable.

PS-1b. The ableist implication here is that autistic children are more likely to be tricked (something which - again - is not happening and is not part of any "trans agenda").

Bloody hell. How on earth does he conclude this though?! Being concerned that many autistic (and lesbian) girls seem to be deciding they are boys in droves..is in no fucking way is saying they have been 'tricked'

Chocolate, are you familiar with the Maya case? As in, did you read the statements, live tweets and judgment in full? Imo it's a truly fascinating read, whatever your stance - I posted at the bottom of this thread some relevant links.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3936655-That-Andrew-James-Carter-thread

I don't think anyone who was up to speed with Maya's case would be able to read more than one or two of those AJCarter tweets because they're so glaringly wrong.

Violence towards transwomen, who have the lowest murder rate of any group world wide (in the uk there are more transwomen murderers than murdered, none of who were murdered from being trans), must be condemned. The mental health of transpeople should be supported (risk of suicide is the same as any other teenage group presenting to CAMHS, puberty blockers have been found to increase the risk of self harm, suicide increases nine-fold in adults post transition). But even if violence to transwomen (and not just transwomen prostitutes) was very high and children identifying as trans were committing suicide at a high rate (which they are not) that is still totally irrelevant as to whether they should be allowed access to single sex spaces. Women are not here to protect men from other men or to provide mental health support. We are not props in their lives to be used when they see fit.

Your post is making me glad I never joined any forums for his fans even though I dearly love that author, ThumbWitches. Fandoms in general seem to be overrun with TRAs, particularly the fantasy and sci-fi ones. Perhaps some have misunderstood what the term "fantasy" refers to in that context.

All of this makes me wonder if there's a reliable way to sort what the general public, as opposed to those already deeply entrenched in online subcultures (and I'd count activisty, left leaning Twitter and other spaces such as blogs as an online subculture, and their right wing equivalents too), think about all of this. I think it's clear at this point that there's a significant gap between what people assume everyone thinks based on what they see online and what the majority actually think, not least because as ThumbWitch experienced, and opposition to the TRA narrative is immediately shut down by it's more enthusiastic adherents.

I couldn't sleep last night (actually due to something to do with my female biology) and I was doing a bit of thinking.
If the definition 'transwomen' not 'women' is transphobic than the T in LGBT is surely transphobic. Saying they transition is surely transphobic as they always were what they are. Trans rights is a transphobic campaign - it refers to them as trans. Surely it should be LGBWM (women and men). And maybe the B needs to change too actually as it acknowledges sex. And actually L and G are also women and men and I wouldn't want to suggest otherwise. I know LGBWM encompasses a fairly broad range of people and it makes it hard to talk about the specific needs and experiences of a particular group, some may actually say it erases the ability of some cohorts to talk about their lives, receive acknowledgement for their unique experiences, find protection in law and campaign for things that matter to them specifically but then again, those things can't matter that much as other wise they'd be differentiated with a name - and that's considered invalidating. They are the same thing anyway.
You can see why this made it even harder to get to sleep.

BarbieandKenBruce you have made the error of trying to apply logic to this ideology.

@TheProdigalKittensReturn I was thinking about that the other day, a writer creates a fantasy world, lots of people make it their ‘reality’, the writer talks about her reality, they wish her violence and to be silenced.

I was thinking the only thing that could make sense is if jkr even put dr up to it...he had to be kept alive so he could "die" at just the right moment.. almost like... there was a boy who lived

@TheProdigalKittensReturn - I think that fantasy fiction, LARP and cosplay may attract a lot of trans people because it allows them to become that which they are not already - they can dress up, they can be a cat, a unicorn, a dragon, a middle earth orc or hobbit etc. and they can be male, female or hermaphrodite and no one blinks an eye.

It suits a lot of people who are not happy with themselves, for whatever reason, and who need an escape from their material reality.

But I'm pretty sure that the author in question would not have been happy to have had this happen in a group dedicated to their fans.

TheProdigalKittensReturn - in relation to how the general public think about this, there have been quite a few AIBU threads (including this one) in the last few days, all of which come down around 90% on the GC side.

That wouldn't have happened a year ago.

In real life my young adult children think the entire trans ideology is bonkers, as do any friends I have ever mentioned it to. However, no-one will speak up, so it isn't that people don't agree, it's that many are, understandably, scared. That in itself reveals much about the TRAs and their actions.

Lots of characterisation of trans people. Which might well be incorrect actually. Being transgender is complex but recognised in law. I honestly feel that taking the group as a whole, and when Rowling discusses this group, to suggest that the first thing you might think is 'rapist' or sexual predator is pretty worrying to someone like me.

In real life my young adult children think the entire trans ideology is bonkers, as do any friends I have ever mentioned it to. However, no-one will speak up, so it isn't that people don't agree, it's that many are, understandably, scared. That in itself reveals much about the TRAs and their actions.

Indeed. The question is how long the public can be bullied into silence via a combination of threats and the kind of clumsy attempts at manipulation Chocolate has been coming out with for the last few pages?

My sense is that we're very close to the tipping point.

Neither JKR or any poster here has said the first thing they see or think of when seeing a trans person is predator?

Trans ideology is not bonkers though if we continue to perpetuate gender stereotypes and male violence.

We can’t discriminated against trans people, it would be wrong legally and morally, it’s transphobic.

What is wrong is the idea that a male body can be categorised as female. That is not transphobic.

Chocolate could you look at my question from yesterday, 2.30pm ish?

I'm genuinely curious, if TW are all welcome how we can tell those who mean us harm from those that don't? And actually why not let all males in ?

Why not indeed. People are people aren't they? No-one can tell whether someone means us harm whether they are women, men or trans. I couldn't discriminate between any of these with that respect, speaking personally that is.
Interesting that other perspectives are being described as 'bollocks' (great argument I mean..) just because the writing holds a different perspective. Personally I don't mind sharing space with men or women or trans. But if I was particularly vulnerable for whatever reason I would be either being very self aware & careful (which to be honest I would be doing anyway whether vulnerable or not), and seeking an alternative Safe space for myself. I agree with this analogy but don't feel threatened by someone just based on gender whether trans or not. The risk you run if you begin to differentiate between trans & non trans with your own personal responses (ie suggesting that someone is more or less predatory because of the fact that they are trans - comes over as deeply prejudicial.

You realise you’re describing privilege? Because something is not a problem for you, it is not a problem.

@fanhorpe - no read again. I did not propose to speak for anyone else at all. I was responding to a request above - sent directly to me, so yes of course I'm going to include a personal opinion based on my own theoretical knowledge. I'm not trying to speak for anyone else & nor would I attempt to interpret anyone else's responses by placing my own intellectual values on their responses.
I also included the whole in my response do please don't misunderstand me.

Personally I don't mind sharing space with men or women or trans. But if I was particularly vulnerable for whatever reason I would be either being very self aware & careful (which to be honest I would be doing anyway whether vulnerable or not), and seeking an alternative Safe space for myself.

This has all gone over your head hasn't it?

Nobody is stopping you from using a mixed sex space, but for some women there are no safe spaces if there are no single sex spaces.

suggesting that someone is more or less predatory because of the fact that they are trans - comes over as deeply prejudicial.

How can you have not realised by now that women aren't worried about trans people they are worried about men?

You clearly haven't read anything that JK wrote if you think the problem is prejudice against trans people, not fear of men.

Please don't bother telling me that women in refuges just need to conquer their fear of men.