A response to JK Rowling

[Hjft]

J.K. Rowling, like so many others, has recently been accused of transphobia and targeted for expressing some of her opinions on sex and gender. This is a very nuanced issue which many people struggle with, including members of the trans community. Assuming bigotry and shutting down debate is not the way to address these issues. Instead we should engage in reasoned debate in order to better understand the subtitles and find a way to live together with mutual respect.

On 10 June 2020 JK Rowling wrote about her reasons for speaking out on sex and gender Issues ( www.jkrowling.com/opinions/j-k-rowling-writes-about-her-reasons-for-speaking-out-on-sex-and-gender-issues/ ) . It is a welcome calm voice in what she calls a toxic environment and I commend her bravery for standing up to the bullies. The essay explains eloquently what she believes and why she holds the opinions she does. She opens up about some very personal issues, and I hope all her detractors will read it before shouting her down.

An essay, however well written, carries a bias, and a reasonable author will recognise that bias and be willing to consider that they could be wrong. And so should the reader of an essay. By writing this essay, JK Rowling has exposed some very valid points which the other side of the debate wish to brush aside. However, she has also indicated a bias which I hope to address.

She conflates sex and gender, and she conflates the law and medicine. Firstly she worries that trans activism is ‘pushing to erode the legal definition of sex and replace it with gender’. This legal definition is for the protection of the civil rights of trans people and has no bearing on biology. Trans people still receive healthcare appropriate to their individual biological truths. Every trans person is acutely aware of their biological sex because it is incongruous with their gender. Remember when Harry Potter uses Polyjuice potion to take on the form of Goyle in ‘Chamber of secrets”. He does not stop being Harry. Now imagine if Harry had got stuck, and had to live his life with everyone believing he was Goyle. It would be intolerable for him and would likely lead to mental illness or worse. This is what it’s like for trans people, and why the law is in place to protect their right to be their authentic selves. Being Harry is ‘not a costume’.

This conflation is further illustrated when she expresses alarm that ‘A man who intends to have no surgery and take no hormones may now secure himself a Gender Recognition Certificate and be a woman in the sight of the law’. Again, this demonstrates a conflation of law and medicine. If a trans person can find relief from their gender dysphoria by permanently expressing themselves in an authentic manner then why should we expect them to accept medical intervention in order to get legal protection. Imagine you have a migraine. If sitting in a dark room with a glass of water provides you with sufficient relief, then you shouldn’t be expected to take strong pain killers or accept brain surgery. The ‘man’ she describes is not masquerading as a woman - she is living her authentic identity as a woman. The law protects her rights to do so. She is not a predator, and it should not be assumed that she is. Without these rights, her transgender status would be revealed every time she tries to hire a car, or open a bank account, and it is her safety that is in danger. A man masquerading as a woman is not able to legally get a Gender Recognition Certificate - because they are a man.

[redacted*] I hope JK Rowling’s essay will mark a turning point in the tone of these discussions, and people can start to properly address them.

• [edited by MNHQ to remove inflammatory content - we're allowing the challenges to this section of the OP to remain]

Thank you.

Men need to sort themeselves out

No more needs to be said, really.

Here's the magnificent bell hooks on men and masculinity.

Michelle your post at 14.24 was excellent. Please can you write all my future posts for me?

Those are Disorders of Sexual Development that in actual fact prove that there are only two sexes as they occur in one or other of the two human sexes

And the existence of DSD is proof of sexual reproduction. It's pretty basic biology ...

Gentle side note: people with DSD generally prefer the first D to be taken to stand for Differences. I also get the impression that most of them don't like being used in this debate as "proof" that sex doesn't exist. It's an entirely different situation to being trans, though of course a person with DSD could still be trans as well.

@Michelleoftheresistance

But mostly, I’m worried about what will happen when she continues to fund woman-centred and feminist causes.

You're seriously holding up this article (you've linked to it several times) and saying This Is A Good Thing?

That it's worrying that woman-centred causes are funded and supported?

Excellent evidence (I'll add it to the half continent of evidence already in existence) that this movement is about the suppression, defunding and punishment of female people. Who shouldn't have their causes recognised, who should be repeatedly told to shut up, sit down, move back and prioritise their betters.

This is male supremacism. This is what you're supporting. It's homophobic, with racist aspects, disablist and classist. If you feel good about that, that's your problem.

I'm arguing for female people's needs to be equally planned for and recognised too . Solutions that equally meet everyones needs. Such as the compulsory provision of third spaces and options. And I believe that to meet everyone's needs is going to have to include people born male having the inclusiveness and kindness to realise that people born female are something different to them, with different needs, and those needs can only be met by female only provision in some cases, and that it is wrong to deprive people of any service in order to get your preferred choice of service.

You believe in silencing and excluding female people and their issues and depriving them of services, recognition in law, safety, privacy, dignity and provision so that people born male can be made happy by this triumph of conquest and absolute freedom to feel validated in their identity in every situation. You believe that to give one group what they want, another group must suffer, and more over that it is their moral duty and birthright to suffer. Nicely. And shut up about it. And accept that equality and justice and being heard is not for female humans.

One of these positions is moral. The other... well, it's in good company. General Custer for one. Slave traders for another. It's just a case of swapping around who in your particular opinion are the good guys who get privileged and who are the subordinate, lesser class who should be made to give and to serve their betters. We're currently throwing statues in harbours of people who thought this way instead of realising that equality means everybody. Solutions that work for all.

I've got nothing to add. I just wanted this absolute diamond to appear twice.

@Michelleoftheresistance

But mostly, I’m worried about what will happen when she continues to fund woman-centred and feminist causes.

You're seriously holding up this article (you've linked to it several times) and saying This Is A Good Thing?

That it's worrying that woman-centred causes are funded and supported?

Excellent evidence (I'll add it to the half continent of evidence already in existence) that this movement is about the suppression, defunding and punishment of female people. Who shouldn't have their causes recognised, who should be repeatedly told to shut up, sit down, move back and prioritise their betters.

This is male supremacism. This is what you're supporting. It's homophobic, with racist aspects, disablist and classist. If you feel good about that, that's your problem.

I'm arguing for female people's needs to be equally planned for and recognised too . Solutions that equally meet everyones needs. Such as the compulsory provision of third spaces and options. And I believe that to meet everyone's needs is going to have to include people born male having the inclusiveness and kindness to realise that people born female are something different to them, with different needs, and those needs can only be met by female only provision in some cases, and that it is wrong to deprive people of any service in order to get your preferred choice of service.

You believe in silencing and excluding female people and their issues and depriving them of services, recognition in law, safety, privacy, dignity and provision so that people born male can be made happy by this triumph of conquest and absolute freedom to feel validated in their identity in every situation. You believe that to give one group what they want, another group must suffer, and more over that it is their moral duty and birthright to suffer. Nicely. And shut up about it. And accept that equality and justice and being heard is not for female humans.

One of these positions is moral. The other... well, it's in good company. General Custer for one. Slave traders for another. It's just a case of swapping around who in your particular opinion are the good guys who get privileged and who are the subordinate, lesser class who should be made to give and to serve their betters. We're currently throwing statues in harbours of people who thought this way instead of realising that equality means everybody. Solutions that work for all.

Me too.

Three times a charm, we hope.

@ShebaShimmyShake

Gentle side note: people with DSD generally prefer the first D to be taken to stand for Differences. I also get the impression that most of them don't like being used in this debate as "proof" that sex doesn't exist. It's an entirely different situation to being trans, though of course a person with DSD could still be trans as well.

Thanks for pointing that out Sheba I will make sure I use the correct terminology in future.

I know people with DSD's have repeatedly asked not be used in this debate and I constantly point that out to those that do and request they stop it, retract it and apologise for it but they never, ever do. As I said before their kindness and respect for others wants, needs and feelings is very much a one way street.

There’s another thread running where Caster is held up as an example of men in womens sports.

They actually say she is a man saying she is a woman and therefore trans.

There is, or used to be an eloquent poster with DSD who had a y chromosome. She was excellent at saying why people should not be pointing and screaming “man” at CS.

I think the problem is the use of the word gender in the article when the writer meant 'sex'. Gender is just a nonsense. There's no such thing as a pink brain.

Trans women want the right to be spoken to as women or use a different name. I get that, but ultimately its just pronouns and means nothing.

People want the legal right to 'live as a woman". What is that? It's just a caricature. A stereotype. I don't have the legal right to live as a woman. I have to wear jeans every day, because of the workload dumped on me by a society that doesn't make sure men " live as men" I have to learn how to do every "masculine" task whether I want to or not.
I have literally no time to do what I want to do at all.

Its all just a phallacy. One that has been used to control and subjugate women since time immemorial.

For a man to get a GRC saying he is now a Transwoman
he has to live as a woman
Please define such?
as many women I know are androgynous slobs after weeks of lockdown

In practice it pretty much means get your name changed on your gas bill and stick with that change for a while.

Because they didn't grow up accepting it was just normal either.

Also because it's because they're a not slut, a cock-tease, asking for it, wearing the wrong clothes, going out at the wrong time, drinking too much, going to the wrong places etc, etc, etc.

They wouldn't be told be a judge that being raped and sodomised hadn't affected her too badly as Jill Saward was, and she died shockingly young, probably from the physical affects of her ordeal wrecking her long term health.

Prodigal
Well in that case I am two women as I have bills in two female names

And I was abused by my sister's much older boyfriend who suggested we all slept in the same bed with him in the middle! I was 15 he was 42. When I realised he wasn't groping me in his sleep and moved his hand he looked in my face and laughed mockingly at me. Nice!

Let me preface my post by saying I empathise, sympathise, and agree with the vast majority of the posters in this thread.

What men put women through is just disgraceful. What women have to face every day of their lives makes me angry. That men can impose such horrible acts upon women and get away with it, say in day out, is abhorrent.

I Can’t help but feel that TRA’s are attacking women because they see women as an easier target. Trans people’s problem does NOT lie with women. Trans people’s fear stems from men. Trans women want a safe space from men. And they want that safe space at the expense of women. They want to, for want of a better word, invade women’s spaces to escape from men. And when women say “but those are our spaces”, trans women redirect their anger away from the true source of their anger and onto women.

Women are not the problem. Women are not the problem for transwomen. Men are the problem for transwomen. And yet transwomen are themselves refusing to recognise this, and instead taking their anger out on a “group” (women) who are not actually the ones causing them any problems.

I am trans. I totally understand the frustration and anger that you are all feeling. It angers me too. But I am not a woman. I can only sympathise and to a degree empathise with your frustrations and anger.

My anger lies towards those who I identify with. My anger lies towards trans people. Not so much trans men, because they really aren’t the ones causing this conflict. But towards transwomen and transwomen’s so called allies.

I have cried tonight reading this thread. So many people taking about their personal experiences. What so many women here have had to deal with, again and again, day after day. It sickens me and saddens me.

I do have to say, and I say this with genuine intent. It is clearly not enough to recount your lived experiences on a thread such as this, as cathartic as that may be. You have to do more. Because no one is listening. Nothing is changing. Nothing is being done.

And something must be done. And if and when you say no more, I have had enough, we need to fight back...

I will stand by you, and I, a trans person, will counter the trans voices alongside you.

JK Rowling, I agree with you.

Magdalen Berns, I agree with you.

Germaine, I agree with you.

I wish people would listen. I wish people would understand. I wish people...

I just wish.

I am sorry for invading your space. I just want you to be able to keep your space. I just want you to not have to go through the crap that men put upon you. I just want you to feel valid, and worthwhile.

I just want it all to stop.

ripples101 wow, what a powerful post, so eloquently put. Thank you.

@ripples101

@ripples101 - thank you.

ripples thank you for your respectful input, please stay. It's been a hell of a week so someone probably has some on the go too x

@ripples101. Such powerful words 💐 thank you.

The fightback is underway! And we welcome those who want to help.

Women understand very well why some transwomen would be scared of men. Taking over our spaces is not the solution, but if transwomen wanted to fight for their own spaces there would be very few women who'd object, and some of us would want to help.

Thank you for thanking me.

I really should be thanking you all however.

I have many people in my life who accept me and respect me and actually like me. I regard myself as fortunate.

I too have had some horrible experiences at the hands of men.

But this isn’t about me. This is about you all. I totally recognise where the problem lies in all of this. And it angers me so much that those who are causing the actual problem are the ones who are getting away with it.

Women such as JK Rowling, women such as yourselves, are doing nothing more than saying this isn’t right. Magdalen, god bless her soul, was so refreshing to listen to, so on point and so, well, just so right, and yet they have been and are being vilified.

I just don’t understand why that is happening.

All I can do is offer my support to you. You have my support. I agree with you. All I can do in the real world is to not invade your space. I don’t invade your space. I recognise who and what I am. I am under no disillusion. I know what I want to be, I know what I wish I was. I also know what I actually am.

And I’m ok with that.

And do you know what. Women accept that of me. It is men who do not.

I know where the problem lies.

And it makes me so sad, so angry, so frustrated. Why every single being can’t see it for what it actually is.

@ripples101

Thank you. Thank you for empathising, for understanding, for listening and for speaking. I'm sorry for the hardships you've faced just as you are sorry for the hardships I have. Thank you for wanting girls and women to feel and to be be as safe as possible