So now Netflix has removed The Mighty Boosh and League of Gentlemen

[Doyoumind]

Should they be cancelled or is it going too far? They weren't like Little Britain, imho. Perhaps they were offensive. How far does it go though? Will there be anything left to watch pre 2020?

DGRossetti hahaha, that I can get behind.

Not sure how you can infer any of that from my comment, hypernormal. If people want to watch GWTW obviously that's up to them (I watched it again sometime last year). Equally, if people want to watch Birth of a Nation or Triumph of the Will, or other films that promote white supremacy and/or fascism, then that's up to them, as long as the film isn't breaking any laws. But in a moment where white complacency about racism is being challenged, it's not much of a surprise that a film that glorifies the actions of the KKK is under scrutiny.

And the 'you can't judge old films by modern standards' argument is strange, unless you also think we shouldn't judge 'The Jew Suss' on the grounds that antisemitism was fine in 1930s Germany. We make all sorts of judgements about cultural artefacts from the past - ethical ones as well as aesthetic - and we do it all the time. No reason why popular racist films should be exempt.

GWTW is, amongst many other things (including an apology for rape), a work from the 1930s whose makers made a deliberate choice to promote white vigilantism in a decade when over 100 black Americans had been lynched. So yes, I think it's completely reasonable for Netflix or anyone else to rethink whether they want to show it. Won't stop people watching it if they want.

Triumph of the Will

One of the earliest example of exceptional female film making ....

FatherBuzzCagney I wasn't so much inferring, but musing and curious to hear your opinion.
Birth of a Nation and Triumph of the Will should be watched as works of art, not as instructional manuals. I'm pretty sure they are studied in this way in film schools.
And the 'you can't judge old films by modern standards' argument is strange, I think we're arguing for the same thing, that old films should be contextualised and seen as artefacts from another era. Where we differ is that I don't think they should be banned. Even if a film has a terrible, hateful message, it can still be a work of art in the visual sense, or be an important artefact from another time. I also think it's insulting to people's intelligence to tell them what they are and are not allowed to see on film. It would be different if similar films were being made today, becoming popular and their racist messages being adopted by the masses, but that's not what this is. I don't think it's really possible to ban films in this day and age anyway, they will always be accessible.

Haven't rtft so sorry if it's been covered but can we preemptively cancel Mrs Brown's Boys in case in the future we decide we care about women?

I think the problem for the Mrs Brown's Boys cast at the moment is that what with the lockdown and the quarantine, they're having trouble getting into their offshore bank accounts where the BBC pays them to avoid UK tax.

I’m quite shocked at the amount of early 2000s films (especially teenybopper type ones that I LOVED) that use the word ‘retard’ - but it was of it’s time and teens now won’t put up with that word for the most part. I don’t think we need to take those films down though. Blackface is obviously a whole other subject, but I watched Bring It On the other day and there’s a bit of language in it you wouldn’t see now, and it struck me as how things change.

Where we differ is that I don't think they should be banned.

Really weird that you read my comment and thought that's what I was saying.

Looks like we can all agree on Mrs Brown's Boys, though.

ChilliCheese

Molly Rigwald has banned her daughter from watching the Breakfast Club, mainly for the part where she is sexually assaulted under the desk but this is all a bit of a laugh.

If you can remember the 80s....

Father Taken off the platforms I mean, I know you're saying that people can watch them if they like elsewhere. You said you thought it was reasonable of Netflix to review featuring films such as GWTW, I honestly thinks it's very tokenistic of them. If people are racist in 2020, it's not because they've seen GWTW. Sorry if you've thought I'm being hostile, I'm not attacking you at all, just trying to have a conversation.

@MockersGuidedByTheScience that’s really interesting. I was born in the early 90s but I generally enjoy those sorts of films. Not seen breakfast club though.

Didn't think that, just disagreeing

No, I don't think that GWTW makes people racist, but I do think it feeds into (and helped to create) an unhealthy culture of romanticising the Antebellum South, particularly in parts of the US - the kind of culture that means white people want to get married on plantations, and get cross with plantation tours that mention the reality of slavery. There's obviously been a debate going on for some time in the US about whether it should be understood as a Confederate monument. As I was in the middle of typing this, I did a search and found this article from yesterday which makes my point more eloquently (though at greater length).

So yes, sure, people have a right to watch it if they want. But a company like Netflix has an equal right to decide they don't want to show it, or show it without contextualising it, because it's racist. In one sense it's tokenistic (because they will still have a load of less high profile racist content up there, probably) but in another sense I don't think it is, because of the film's status.

It would be nice if On the Buses and the Carry On films were removed. Load of sexist tosh.

FatherBuzzCagney Those reviews are nuts! I did a tour of Auschwitz, I didn't expect to hear a heartwarming tale about the lives of the guards and then complain they'd 'gone too far' when the talked about how many people had died! Isn't the problem of those reviewers just stupidity, though? Surely they should learn about this stuff in school, I don't think feature films should be treated as an educational source - GWTW is not a documentary any more than 'Gladiator' is. I do understand why people who exist as part of the legacy of slavery would object to the scenes in the film depicting slaves in the way they do. I'm not trying to be insensitive, but I do think there are a lot of questions that should be asked as to what criteria we use to decide a film is deemed offensive, how offensive, and then what exactly should be done with it. I get taking GWTW off those platforms more than Little Britain in some ways, because Little Britain had a number of characters in it that are clearly sending up racists as idiots. On the other hand, GWTW is so old and of it's time that I can't see it having a massively negative cultural impact today, but maybe I'm biased because I've enjoyed watching it. I think rather than censoring the past, the most useful thing that could be done by Netflix is commissioning new documentaries on the subject to go alongside the film. As so many people have already seen GWTW anyway, it would be better to show it alongside something which is rooted in the reality, to address how the film falls short.

It would be nice if On the Buses and the Carry On films were removed. Load of sexist tosh.
They're rubbish, but I'm not so bothered about them, I'm more concerned about sexist tosh such as 'Drag Race' that is being made now which is sold to us as though it's progressive.

hypernormal Completely agree that people should learn about this stuff in school - and if they did, then things like GWTW would have less importance. The problem is that they often don't. There's no national US education system, education is determined by each state. So US public (i.e. state) education, which is often chronically underfunded anyway, is at the mercy of each state's political leadership. This creates some, let's say, variation in quality and content. It explains why former slave states with Republican governments can downplay slavery as a cause of the Civil War

Not that the UK has been great on addressing slavery through the education system, either, of course.

Will there be no more repeats of Rising Damp in that case?

The thing is we ended up laughing at Rigsby when Philip got one over him again and he was shown up yet again.

Not that the UK has been great on addressing slavery through the education system, either, of course.
It hasn't, but from my experience as a kid in the '80s, I learned very little history in school of any kind. Shockingly, the only piece of history I learned about in primary school was the gunpowder plot, and for two years in secondary school I learned about the World Wars. I didn't even learn about any Kings and Queens, so it's hardly surprising slavery wasn't touched upon. I'm actually quite embarrassed by my lack of knowledge in history and try to make up for it as an adult by watching a lot of history programs. I think things have changed a lot since I was at school, though.

...oh yes, I think we covered the basics on the discovery of the Americas too. My history teacher was incredibly boring, which didn't help!

Fawlty Towers The Germans has gone.
Basil was a send up of people who wouldn't stop talking about the war.

@thesunwillout

Fawlty Towers The Germans has gone. Basil was a send up of people who wouldn't stop talking about the war.

That episode literally has the word ‘wog’ in it. I don’t think the issue is that he is sending up white people for offending Germans.

If they're that bothered why can't they just remove season 2 of the league of gentlemen, and remove the sprit of Jazz episode from the boosh.

Why get rid of two brilliant comedies because people have taken issue with two characters which only appear in a few episodes.

Plus papa Lasaru isn't black face, it's reverse clown make up. People are looking for racisum when it's not there. Wouldn't it have been weirder if the spirt of jaz had been white? He wasn't really blackface either, he has more of a tattooed face.

I completely get that some things don't age well, but I honestly think the world is becoming far too easily offended. Brits are known for their dry sense of humour and I feel as though we're having that stripped from us.

Totally ridiculous