New neighbours

[Plannergirl9]

Sorry this is a long one. TLDR: Essentially we were gifted land from ex-neighbour when they died. New neighbours who bought her house has told us we must sell it to them.

A bit more backstorey. Our elderly neighbour lived next to us until they died in late December. She had a side bit of garden like an allotment that we used to help her with (hatched area on diagram). Unbeknownst to us she gifted us that area of land in her will. The rest of the house and land was to be sold and the money given to charity.

After the will reading we have had the land registry changed to confirm we now own the land. The house was put up for sale late January. In mid February we received a letter from a solicitor asking that we sell the land to the potential buyer of the house. We emailed back saying no we won't sell. We then heard nothing more from any solicitors. House was then sold during lockdown.

The new neighbours moved in on Monday. Yesterday they came to our door asking for the name of our solicitor so the land purchase can take place. We told them we were not planning on selling the land and that we told their solicitor that. The new neighbours didn't take it well. Apparently they only bought the house on the provision that they could buy the land and this was agreed with us via their solicitors.

The new neighbours got quite loud and angry about us apparently misleading them and left to speak to their solicitor. They seem to think we legally need to sell them the land as there was a written (email) contract between them and their solicitor who confirmed to them by email prior to the sale of the house that we would sell the land.

Aibu to a) not sell the land even though we technically didn't buy it and b) that the fact their solicitor has mislead them is not our problem?

Neighbours land is in red.
Our land is in black and the hatched area is the land they expect to buy.

@Daisydoesnt
Since they were planning on buying the land for a 'peppercorn' price, they probably wouldn't factor it into overall costs.
OP, watch out that they don't decide to sell the house, and include your plot in the particulars. If it comes up for sale again, check with the EA.

OP do you have a good relationship with your own solicitor who dealt with the exchange of title from your old neighbour to you? If so I would give them a ring and just explain the situation to cover yourself.

Don’t worry about paying them they will likely give you advice for free just because this is so ludicrous and they will dine off this story for years

Seriously though I would just give them a ring to let them know of the situation just in case it does take a turn for the worse

@sueelleker I'm sorry but I disagree. If it was intended for development then they would have pinned down the price first. Let's just say that the OP had agreed to sell the plot in principal, but had not agreed the price. She then finds out that it's not intended for neighbour to grow carrots on, but so that she can build some houses on it. The price would go up, right?

Not only that no developer would seriously buy a plot without first securing outline planning permission.

In any case, we're all speculating. I'm speculating - based on the info in the thread - that they want the land for the same reason the OP does: so their house is on a bigger plot and has a larger garden.

Ohhh. You'd better fence it OP or they'll attempts gain it by encroachment.

Hi OP, I posted before - having read the updates, I'm even more convinced that you really shouldn't engage with them past a verbal, "yes, Joe Bloggs of XX firm asked if we'd be interested in selling and we confirmed that we wouldn't". You have no need (and nothing to gain) by showing e-mails / being sorry that they haven't got the land etc. If the land has been legally transferred to you - at whatever amount - then it's nothing to do with the neighbour. Even if you go it for nothing and did want to sell it, that's no reason to have to give it away to anyone else.

If you want any help doing any digging around re the solicitor who sent the wierd e-mail with Latin in it, pm me.

Our neighbour died a few (2/3?) years ago. They too had a family will reading - every single one of them was disappointed to learn it was all left to various charities.

There's the old classic way of sticking it to somebody you never liked one last time at the will reading:

"And to Uncle Frank, with whom I didn't always see eye-to-eye but nevertheless I promised to 'mention' him in my will: Hello, Uncle Frank!!!* That done, I hereby bequeath all of my money and worldly goods to the cats' home!"

*it doesn't have to be a meaningless faux-pleasantry - you can always mention them in a less neutral way; or even state that you wish to leave £1 to 'Battling Body Odour UK' in fond memory of Uncle Frank

@WeBuiltThisBuffetOnSausageRoll

Yes that’s exactly what she intended. In the five years we lived next door to her- we only ever saw three family members visit. For the funeral and reading there must have been a good 25 or more cars turn up.
It’s taken until now for the various charities to take ownership - and the local gossip is that it was due to family trying to fight the wills terms.

If it was intended for development then they would have pinned down the price first.

That's what a sensible, reasonable, above-board would-be buyer would have done, but you would thereby also 'risk' having to pay the market value for the land. These people (I'm guessing the dad is the main driving force) appear to be relying on intimidation and bluster and, I daresay, gaslighting.

Incidentally, if they believe that property received as a gift (rather than being earned through being worked for) should be passed on at next to no cost, did they also try that on when buying the house from the charity that had received it as a gift? More to the point, are they planning on developing the land and then 'paying it forward' by selling it on for a tenner? Thought not....

I'm still loving the idea that saying something in terrible fake Latin makes it legally enforceable. Does that mean that I can mug somebody in the street, shout "Nunc donatus librum!" and then the law demands that they comply by handing over their cash?

Bargebill19

Good for her - some people are shameless.

It's amazing how many people fully accept the norm of leaving your money to your family after you die, but oddly seem not to comprehend the other strongly-associated norm of also loving, caring for and spending time with your family in the years before they die.

The OP has already said she has registered the land, they cannot take this land by encroachment or claim it in any other way. She doesnt have to do anything else.
Why should she get a solicitor thats expense she doesn't have to pay.
Tell them you're sorry their solicitor has mislead them but this has nothing to do with you and by way of advice they may want to report the solicitor to the Law society of Scotland - end of matter.

I still really like the idea of pretending to side with them, telling them how shocked you are on their behalf at the appalling incompetence and gross misconduct of their solicitor, and also that you wish to take things further yourself as a legal professional has been claiming title and privilege to YOUR property.

You have all of the written proof of what their shoddy solicitor has said and are determined to report him to all relevant authorities and legal bodies and to demand an apology and retraction from them on behalf of all of you, to ensure that he doesn't mislead anybody else in the same way.

They should be able to easily give you all the contact details for their 'solicitor' - he will be in her phone under the name 'Dad'.

Maybe ask the council if they have applied for planning permission already? They sound cheeky enough..

If they'd applied for planning it will be on the council website

OP really does not need to contact a solicitor. She hasn't ever agreed to sell, even their "proof" didn't say she had and even if she had she could just change her mind! No contracts were ever exchanged, no one can force her to sell it.

They are just cheeky and deserve to be laughed at for their tantrum

You don't need to engage with them any further. Even if the email was from a Solicitor, you would have to be fairly dim to think a stranger is going to sell you their land for a few pound. A simple, you will have to go to your Solicitor as we were very clear will suffice. You are the registered owners. There is nothing more to say in the matter. I think you said it is fenced off sp just watch for potential encroachment down the line.

Blimey. Tbh I would go to the expense of contacting a (real) solicitor and getting this nailed in writing, and that you will not engage further on the matter. Your solicitor needs to write to the purchasers not just their "solicitor" to cover all bases as I don't think the solicitor is one at all.

Doing the conveyancing on a house purchase doesn't have to go via a solicitor but the financial side of things does. I'd imagine that the dad has been pretending to be a solicitor (which is illegal? There was an 'architect' recently who got in trouble for trading as one but wasn't qualified) and now they're in a mess. It doesn't matter what they want to do with the land, it's not theirs.

You have my sympathy though because these kinds of disputes are really stressful, and through no fault of your own

Am I the only one who would consider moving out now and running away?
If these are already acting like this, getting angry, faking legal documents...who know what else they are capable of?
I would definitely be scared to live near these nutcases?
Did you say that the wife is British , is the husband than non British?

Did you say that the wife is British , is the husband than non British?
^ what’s your thinking here @Toastandjams ? As in, how is this relevant?

OP doesn't need to pay for anything; she's checked her docs, which are all secure, and the NDN's title which does not show her plot on it.

If they persist, the only people she might consider contacting is the police, to report harassment.

I am interested if the Scottish property records list the purchasers and if the dad is on there or there is some sort of indication he's given part of the purchase price (although I guess that might not be reflected.)

What a shame the nice lady's house was sold to tossers.

Did you say that the wife is British , is the husband than non British?

No, she said she was English. This is relevant as the property is inScotland and the laws are different between Scotland andEngland.

Red upthread the OP mentioned the wife was English, not British. Selling houses in Scotland works differently and the national question came about in the context of English posters' confusion and also (IIRC) whether they might have been dealing with an English lawyer and a Scottish lawyer involved during the process (and who the OP was actually contacted by in Feb.)

It was around those points, not a 'racist' question in this case.

I wouldn’t ring the dad in case he’s the type with a minder and a baseball bat.

I had no idea those phrases were actually used in the legal community

They really aren’t! I’ve never seen jargon like that anywhere.

I don’t think the OP needs to worry about the chancers next door intimidating or hassling her. They’ve given no indication of it at this stage - the initial response was probably surprise/shock but they’ve been less aggressive since. Your position is - as far as I can see - watertight as you know you own the land and it’s correctly registered. There’s now a paper trail of correspondence and you know your planned shed is permitted. There’s not a lot else they can do - any attempt to take possession of the land is going to be a fairly straightforward case of “Fuck off” (bit of legal jargon for you there ) via a solicitor if necessary.

oooohhh I want to know what Dad is going to say!! So is he meant to be coming round today, ringing today or just e-mailing?

Daddy!! Where are you???

@RedRed9 no, I was thinking if it’s some Italian style Godfather family.

Ultimate CFs. That's why they were shirty about the man cave.