To be horrified and heart broken by the Frankie Macritchie case

[frillyflamingo]

Frankie Macritchie dog attack death: Mum Tawnee Willis jailed www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cornwall-52939564

I think the mother will be haunted by her actions for the rest of her life but Jesus fucking Christ, I can't believe anyone would think it was a good idea to leave a child alone with any dog, let alone a 7stone bull breed.

I love my dogs and I trust them with my life but there isn't a chance in hell I would leave them with my children for just a minute.

I'm sharing because it's easy to get complacent, especially when you have good natured dogs like mine.

I feel sad for everyone in this sad story but just desperately sad for what that little boy must have gone through that evening, alone.

There are a lot of staffers in shelters though. I wondered if that was because they had a rep for being good with kids but weren’t really?

I remember a previous thread that said that Staffies were put into babies prams to guard whatever was been sold from the prams.

I bet that dog had a crap life too. I’m hiding the thread now. I can’t bear to think of a nine year old ( who would be old enough to know what was going on) savaged to death.

@TazSyd

There are a lot of staffers in shelters though. I wondered if that was because they had a rep for being good with kids but weren’t really?

No... it’s for quite a few reasons.

If you include crosses and ones that are not KC registered they’re the most popular dog in the U.K., so just by virtue of that they’re going to be well represented in rescues... and they have a reputation that means people actively avoid them once they’re in rescues.

They’re massively overbred, so easy to get hold of by people who impulse buy puppies, they’re fairly active and playful so if left untrained they’re a bit of a pita, so people get rid of them when they become teenagers.

People who want them because people think they’re aggressive get rid of them when they’re in fact not.

So it all adds up to being a lot looking for homes.

Here's an article on the dangers of the "nanny dog" expression. It seems to have started in relation to Staffies and been extended to pit bulls in general:

"There are people who truly believe the type of canine that has been ripping children apart since at least the 1800s was bred to be a nanny dog. This claim, along with loads of others presented by the influential pit bull lobby, is a complete lie. It appears to have started from an article written in 1971 in The New York Times in which Lilian Rant declared they were a nursemaid dog. Rant was the president and magazine editor for the Staffordshire Bull Terrier Club of America and was trying to polish up their image."

Here's a pro-pit bull blog that backs this up:

"It’s from the defenders that the often repeated claim that in the nineteenth and early twentieth centuries Pitbulls were called “Nanny Dogs” has emerged. One commenter on our own forums even said they were bred for this purpose, and there are whole Facebook pages set up to celebrate “The Nanny Dogs”. Unfortunately, while there is lots of evidence that Pitbulls and children could and can form loving bonds, and reams of vintage photographs showing babies and children posing with Pitbull breeds, there is no evidence that they were ever called Nanny Dogs at the time, and certainly weren’t bred for the purpose.

"It’s hard to deny the bloody origins of the Pitbull when it is baked into their very name. The bull comes from Old English Bulldogs, used in the 17th century practice of “bull baiting” where a chained bull would be attacked by several dogs at a time. Bloodsports were banned in England in 1835, so breeders crossed Bulldogs with Terriers for use in fights against other dogs and rats, fights which were easier to hide from the law. These horrific battles would take place in pits, which is where the “pit” part of the name comes from."

Zoe - that's really informative and confirmed what I always knew. People are deluded about 'Staffies'. Any bull dogs are dangerous by virtue of the fact that they can easily kill. I know some yapper will come on to say the terriers bite more often - perhaps - I'm not going to deny the stats - but rarely has a terrier killed a human.

@GimmeAy

Zoe - that's really informative and confirmed what I always knew. People are deluded about 'Staffies'. Any bull dogs are dangerous by virtue of the fact that they can easily kill. I know some yapper will come on to say the terriers bite more often - perhaps - I'm not going to deny the stats - but rarely has a terrier killed a human.

Sadly there have been 4 or 5 fatal attacks by other terrier breeds.

It’s also very debatable how many attacks attributed to staffies actually involve staffies.

Staffordshire bull terriers are not large dogs, they’re not much bigger than jack Russells. You do get large powerful dogs that people identify as staffies, but, people are often really bad at identifying dog breeds.

I mean the whole idea of nanny dogs isn’t great, but neither is the idea that there are dangerous and safer dog breeds.

True Staffies aren’t very big at all and tend to wonderful people dogs and easily trained.

However depending on breed lines they can be sharp with other dogs - although of course that’s true of any breed.

They often get handed in to rescue because the dipshit owner realises that rather than an intimidating killing machine what they actually have on the end of the lead is a soppy pudding of a dog that scares nobody - despite its studded collar 😏

@CheerfulPotato - so sad, there were rows and rows of staffie type dogs when we visited a shelter a few years ago - actually in Staffordshire as it happens.

(Sadly we couldn't adopt any as we don't have the time to walk a dog, so we got a rescue cat instead).

Never hear much about cat attacks...though I guess there are viscious cats out there.

Seriously though, I just pray people who read the story will learn from this sad event that a child and a dog left alone like this does not always have a good outcome.

Never hear much about cat attacks...though I guess there are viscious cats out there.

My friend has a snappy, anti social cat. Small mouth, so can’t do much damage. Unlike Pit Bulls.

Just started reading this and I got really angry... how can you say gigglypip that this is an 'error of judgement'? An error of judgement is when you go out and leave the kettle switched on.

What this woman did was not an error of judgement, it was NEGLECT.
Neglect with inevitable, appalling consequences. And for those of you who think 'this poor woman' is going to have to live with her 'guilt' for the rest of her life, wake up!

I have spent years working with forensic patients - murderers mainly - and they don't like feeling guilt. On the contrary, their capacity for dodging responsibility is absolute. They were ill. They were drunk. They had a bad childhood. It was the drugs. They've been sexually abused in the past. They were provoked. They weren't even there at the time. Nobody understands them.

So it's nice that you are all such decent people, but you are superimposing the way you would feel onto a social class which just doesn't 'feel' in the same way that you do.

She's not a forensic case, or a murderer...and none of these is a 'social class'. We have none of us interviewed her in depth.

We are just going on what we think the normal response is to having lost a child, and having played a part in it.

Not defending her actions that night. She was stupid and selfish.

None of us can 'diagnose' her as a psychopath and know her true feelings on the basis of a news story.

superimposing the way you would feel onto a social class which just doesn't 'feel' in the same way that you do.

What "social class" is that? 🙄
Don't be so rude and presumptuous.

Never hear much about cat attacks...though I guess there are viscious cats out there.

Cats certainly can inflict some damage, and you do get aggressive cats - normally cats that haven't been properly socialised or which have suffered abuse.

The differences are that domestic cats aren't strong enough to kill humans, and they don't have the jaw lock reflex that dogs do - with anything larger than themselves, they will bite in order to escape.

The main danger from a cat bite is infection - because they have needle sharp teeth and mouths full of bacteria. Anyone bitten by a cat should seek medical attention if the bite shows signs of infection.

Dogs do NOT have a jaw locking reflex!

*Though larger dogs do have much stronger jaw muscles than cats, which may be what you were thinking of.

Dogs do NOT have a jaw locking reflex!

Apologies, 'reflex' was the wrong word. I should have said 'instinct'.

Fair enough - sorry for getting shouty

I understand it's a term that could be used by some as anti-dog propaganda, which shouldn't be perpetuated, so you were right to correct me, Jesus.

She left her child unattended to get pissed.
The Mccans left their child unattended to get pissed. Both cases had catastrophic consequences. Only one parent is in prison though.

Public image, social class and ‘respectability’ massively play into this. On MN it is totally forbidden to say anything remotely critical about the Mccans. Why is that not the case here too?

I expect my comment will get deleted in a minute.

We should win something for politest and most quickly resolved squabble on MN.

Both of them were neglectful and under the influence.

We are obviously the two most reasonable people on MN!

Not me - I must be having an off-day

FucksBizz its an interesting point. But completely separate from this thread.

I completely disagree that the McCanns can't be posted about or were not prosecuted.

However, it doesnt impact how neglectful or tragic this was.

@Trevsadick

FucksBizz its an interesting point. But completely separate from this thread.

I completely disagree that the McCanns can't be posted about or were not prosecuted.

However, it doesnt impact how neglectful or tragic this was.

They weren't prosecuted, though. They were made suspects by the Portuguese police, but not prosecuted. (Unless I'm remembering it wrong!)