Can we now finally get rid of 'Do they know it's Christmas'?

[Tokenminority]

This song drives me absolutely up the wall. It's patronising, reductive, and it completely harms efforts towards equality.

I understand the focus on equal opportunities and stopping police brutality, but other narratives, such as the pictures painted in the 'Do they know it's Christmas' song, can be just as harmful.

'Africa' is not a country. You did not go on holiday to 'Africa', similarly to how you wouldn't have sent that you went on holiday to 'Europe' when you in fact went to France.

Of course there are major problems surrounding poverty on the African continent, just as there are in other places, but African countries are not only filled with begging, malnourished children who have never seen a Christmas present.

The picture attached is a photograph of Lagos. If I went on the street and asked random people on which continent that photo was taken, would anyone even consider the possibility that it may have been Africa?

I said at the time the best thing people could do was buy the record (so the money went to the cause) and smash it up. It was a shit song, shit lyrics and shit music from the start - and it hasn't improved with 36 years of being played in every shot shop and pub in the land.

I wonder how old some of you were in 1984/5 and whether you are too young to understand the monumental scale and sheer horror of the famine in some African countries at that time. I watched Michael Buerk's report from Ethiopia on the news that night. It was heartbreaking and gut-wrenching, and everybody who saw it wanted to do something, anything to help.

That song was a desperate high speed attempt to raise as much money as possible in the shortest time, in order to try and help to prevent millions more deaths.

No doubt if they'd had all the time in the world, the lyrics would have been different, but they didn't have that luxury. They certainly didn't expect it to be picked apart and criticised line-by-line over 35 years later.

*I wonder how old some of you were in 1984/5 and whether you are too young to understand the monumental scale and sheer horror of the famine in some African countries at that time. I watched Michael Buerk's report from Ethiopia on the news that night. It was heartbreaking and gut-wrenching, and everybody who saw it wanted to do something, anything to help.

That song was a desperate high speed attempt to raise as much money as possible in the shortest time, in order to try and help to prevent millions more deaths.

No doubt if they'd had all the time in the world, the lyrics would have been different, but they didn't have that luxury. They certainly didn't expect it to be picked apart and criticised line-by-line over 35 years later.*

Exactly.

the lyrics are dated on the priginal but i like it one of the first records i bought and i like hearing it around chrismtmas still

I reckon ' Ethiopia' is harder to fit in a song than ' Africa'

Well, that's alright then.

If the UK was filled with other, more balanced narratives about the African continent I wouldn't care so much about the existence of this song, but you are kidding yourself if you think that the lyrics and advertisment campaigns surrounding Do they know it's Christmas have never shaped anybody's perception of Africa is viewed as a continent. If you ask the average thirty year-old what this song is about, I doubt you'll get that many people who say 'the 1984 famine in Ethiopia'. I'm sure you'll get a lot of 'saving the poor children in Africa' though.

Something being well-intentioned does not make it immune to being racist or prejudiced. Saying that I should have bigger things to worry about, I've been told that before. I think the last time might have been when someone remarked, after going back to my natural hair, that I'd looked nicer with my hair straight, the way most women 'keep' it.

@grassyhillocks

I wonder how old some of you were in 1984/5 and whether you are too young to understand the monumental scale and sheer horror of the famine in some African countries at that time. I watched Michael Buerk's report from Ethiopia on the news that night. It was heartbreaking and gut-wrenching, and everybody who saw it wanted to do something, anything to help.

That song was a desperate high speed attempt to raise as much money as possible in the shortest time, in order to try and help to prevent millions more deaths.

No doubt if they'd had all the time in the world, the lyrics would have been different, but they didn't have that luxury. They certainly didn't expect it to be picked apart and criticised line-by-line over 35 years later.

I wasn't born yet in 1985. But you'll have to explain to me why, in 2014, and having had plenty of time to write a less prejudiced song, the 'updated' lyrics are still just as shit.

Seriously, even as a 9 year old when it was released, I hated the lyrics and thought they were inappropriate. I get that it was all well-intentioned, but I think the point is that its time to retire the song.

One thing that bothers me deeply about racism and even about the Black Lives Matter movement is that it is still about white people's perception of racism and white people's ideas about how the problems should be addressed. Wouldn't it be wonderful if instead of white people speaking up, that white people shut up and let black people talk about the issues that affect them and how they would like changes to be made and white people actually listened? Wouldn't that be a better solution?

It was very “of it’s time” and it did a job. There is no doubt that it raised money, raised awareness and saved lives.

But fuck me it’s a grim, patronising, condescending pile of shit.

I wonder how old some of you were in 1984/5 and whether you are too young to understand the monumental scale and sheer horror of the famine in some African countries at that time. I watched Michael Buerk's report from Ethiopia on the news that night. It was heartbreaking and gut-wrenching, and everybody who saw it wanted to do something, anything to help.

I was in my early twenties. And yes Beurk's reports were gut wrenching. (That was back in the days, for those of you too young to remember, when the BBC and ITV news organizations actually went out and investigated things instead of just regurgitating Twitter feeds and Westminster handouts.) Even at the time I thought the song was the most godawful piece of crap and never wanted to listen to it ever again after the third time of hearing. (Hah!)

@ArgumentativeAardvaark

The song was to raise money for a famine-struck area of Africa and we had all seen the Michael Buerk reports on TV of starving children scrabbling about in the dust. Nobody ever suggested it was a song about Africa in general. You really think that when Ure and Geldof wrote “where nothing ever grows, no rain or river flows” that they had forgotten about cocoa, coffee, the Zambezi, the S African vineyards, the rainforests? They were referring to that specific part of Africa that was experiencing a famine, at that particular time.

As for “Do they know it’s Christmas?” and “tonight thank God it’s them instead of you”, people are misunderstanding the tone of these lyrics. The lyricists and singers did not think that the famine-struck Ethiopians would be fascinated to know it was holly and tinsel time in the U.K.- the point was that a huge part of the world was celebrating, spending money, eating huge meals while another part of it was starving. It was to highlight the fact that the prosperity and security we experienced was not shared by these people living in life-threatening situations, to drive home the differences in their lives from ours. Their experience was so far removed from ours that the joy and fun of Christmas was not remotely on their radar. They were not suggesting that the Morecombe and Wise Christmas special and some cracker jokes might cheer them up, and certainly not suggesting that Christianity would make it all better.

And “tonight thank God it’s them instead of you”- it’s sarcastic, can you not hear that in Bono’s voice? He is putting words into the mouths of selfish Westerners who turn a blind eye to the suffering and don’t put their hands in their pockets because they are not affected- the “I’m alright Joe, phew, glad that’s not us, brigade”

This. It was really just saying ‘check your privilege’ but we did not say such wanky things in those days.

I don't know anyone in the U.S. who says they're going on vacation to "Europe" unless they are visiting a number of countries, but that would be logical, not a sign of geographical ignorance. I'm sure that goes for Australians and New Zealanders, who are excellent travelers, as well. I completely agree that "Do they know it's Christmas" is garbage.

Well said @grassyhillocks

I hate the song. It's vile.

Aussies and kiwis is more likely going to “Europe” because they visit multiple European countries as it’s taken such a long flight to get there.

I always thought “of course they don’t have snow at Christmas. Its the middle of summer” as a kid. (Kiwi)

@eaglejulesk

For crying out loud!!! It was a song written to raise money for a good cause - it doesn't require all this over analysing. Take a good look at the lyrics of songs - they are not always correct or relevant, but fit in with the song, they aren't meant to be scrutinised for every meaning. I very much doubt the writers care two hoots about what any of you think, and nor should they. What have you done to help the world OP? Time to get over yourself and concentrate on something that really matters instead of expecting a song to be retired because you don't like it.

Admist all that's going on, this might be one of the more upsetting things I've read all week.

"I very much doubt the writers care two hoots about what any of you think and why should they?"

"Time to get over yourself?"

It's one thing to disagree about whether the song should continue to be played or not. Whether it's worth cancelling. Whether it would even change anything. Whether there a mixed feelings about what the song represents to them.

It's a very different thing to completely belittle and deny someone's experience of what it feels like to have to listen to that song over and over again, how it told and still tells me and others that a large part of the black population's only role in life is to sit in their miserable, backwards continent, waiting to be saved. How people comment that they are surprised that you had access to a phone or running water growing up, considering where you came from, or how you hear comments such as 'Africa never does anything for itself', which on occasion turns into the idea that large swathes of black people are forever receiving and dependent on the charity of others to achieve anything in life. Having to listen to people on here speak about how grateful I should be that this song exists, because it did so many lovely things for everyone.

How dare I be upset about anything that was done with the 'good intentions'of two rich white guys with guitars. How dare I suggest that this song may have led to unintended consequences and prejudice that have affected the way me or anybody else is viewed in any way? How dare I feel that it harms my sense of belonging and equality to be painted by the exotic 'other' by songs, TV and other representations?

"Two rich white guys with good intentions made a song about Africa to help you lot, and you have the audicity to feel that the lyrics used in that song may be 'offensive' to you as someone who is of African descent. You think anybody should care what you think? What have you ever done to help anyone? Be a better black person who busies themself with something that actually matters. Or perhaps return to your African mudhut and wait to be saved like a good girl, before I give you an actual problem to worry about."

If you ask the average thirty year-old what this song is about, I doubt you'll get that many people who say 'the 1984 famine in Ethiopia'. I'm sure you'll get a lot of 'saving the poor children in Africa' though

If they have any knowledge about the background of the song, they may link it with Live Aid. Or they may have no idea.

Since when are we meant to know the background of every song we might hear? I have no idea about why every song in the 60s and 70s was written! Or indeed many later than that.

You can't condemn someone in 1984 for writing a song to raise money and that raised millions at the time, that people would think is racist in 2020! Nobody has a crystal ball!

And as I said, the lyrics have been substantially revised in later versions.

And the administrator of the project did blame the entire situation on Bob Geldof, saying he probably did the most out of anyone in the West to convey such an inaccurate picture of the continent and its peoples through using popular culture to make the images stick.

I think this is a little unfair. I was at primary in the 1970’s and the trope about African’s living in mud huts was well established, and had been for decades. As PP have referred to we were given booklets of photos of African children to choose who to give money to....

Reflecting on it, I imagine it came from the churches and Christian missionary organisations and I look back with horror at the motivation of those organisations and the messages we were taught.

But Bob Geldof and Midge Ure didn’t invent that imagery. It had been ingrained in the UK and Ireland for years.

And the Ethiopian famine was to use Michael Buerk’s words “of biblical proportions”. I would urge anyone who doesn’t remember 1984 to watch his news report that I linked yesterday. I was 15 and will never forget those images. That report was on the 9 o clock news on Thursday and the song was recorded on the Sunday. There was a lot of energy from people to get on and do something.

For sure there is plenty wrong with the song, and a whole lot wrong with the way we were taught about Africa. But the famine was very real and I can’t condemn attempts to do anything about it. Not when humanitarian crisis like those in Syria are largely being ignored.

Ok OP if you’re that bothered by it write a better song and raise some money for charity, and if you can get a Xmas number one we can all listen to your song instead of Geldof’s - but we won’t hold our breath.

Easy to sit there and slag off something from the past (before you were even born) that raised millions for charity. Of course you could have done soooo much better 🙄

Edit. in Syria today.

I live in an African country, yes everyone knows its christmas because Christianity is the major religion, If you really wanted snow you could climb a mountain and find some. The song lyrics are problematic but I agree it was created with good intentions. Also they play it on the radio and in shops here so clearly aren't to insulted by the lyrics, but the people here do have a great sense of humor so maybe they're actually all laughing about how stupid westerners are thinking these things.

@Tokenminority

Egypt is studied no invasion etc and my dd studied Ethiopia's rich history, again all theirs.

People say "Africa" in the same way they say "Asia" Probably if someone says something like "Africa would have difficulty coping with Covid-19" they mean they don't think it's "one country" but they're referring to multiple countries...

I DO say I went "to Africa" on holiday because I went to 8 countries at once and rather than listing each country I say Africa. I say the same about my trip to Asia. If I wasn't just going to France but went to Spain, France, Germany, Italy etc on one trip I would say "Europe" when talking about it.

I'm South African. The song is atrocious, and contributes to inaccurate stereotypes about Africa.

When I lived in the UK, I heard:
"Do you have roads in South Africa?"
"Do you have cities?"
"Here in Europe every country is different. But you have the same food everywhere in Africa, don't you?"
"You speak English so well!"
(in response to me saying SA is a dangerous country) "Because of all the animals?"

People are SHOCKINGLY ignorant about Africa, and there's no excuse in 2020 to keep playing a song that categorically did more harm than good.

The mental gymnastics of some people here are astounding.

“But it raised millions for charity!”

Yes, and those millions went to the following places:

1. Directly into the hands of the corrupt government that was burning down the farms, leading to more famine.

2. Buying guns for soldiers to directly kill Ethiopians much more effectively than the famine.

3. Directly giving out food parcels to people, undercutting the prices of the farmers that were still there; spreading the poverty further.

4. The fact that a lot of this could have been prevented - there already were charities out there with the knowledge and experience that Band Aid could have linked in with but they didn’t as they wanted all the glory for themselves.

“But it was of its time!”

How do you justify 2014? I will always remember Geldof publically slating Adele as some sort of heartless bitch for not wanting to be involved, and it actually turned out later that she’d made a quiet and sizeable donation to Oxfam already; whereas some of the other celebrities rocked up, sang their line, then fucked off with no more thought.

Tokenminority I am so sorry you’re having to read this thread, along with all the other bullshit you’ve had to put up with. I don’t understand why some posters are passionately defending a song which its own writers and creators have admitted has problems.