Can we now finally get rid of 'Do they know it's Christmas'?

[Tokenminority]

This song drives me absolutely up the wall. It's patronising, reductive, and it completely harms efforts towards equality.

I understand the focus on equal opportunities and stopping police brutality, but other narratives, such as the pictures painted in the 'Do they know it's Christmas' song, can be just as harmful.

'Africa' is not a country. You did not go on holiday to 'Africa', similarly to how you wouldn't have sent that you went on holiday to 'Europe' when you in fact went to France.

Of course there are major problems surrounding poverty on the African continent, just as there are in other places, but African countries are not only filled with begging, malnourished children who have never seen a Christmas present.

The picture attached is a photograph of Lagos. If I went on the street and asked random people on which continent that photo was taken, would anyone even consider the possibility that it may have been Africa?

It's kind of dated, but offensive? Most of the things like the bit about snow, or even the title question, were understood in the context of the famine going on at the time and the idea that if the world did't show care for those in trouble it wouldn't be much of a Christmas for them - it's really directed at the listeners.

It's maybe had it's day as a song and if people don't relate to it perhaps it will stop being played. But the "offence" business is really a bit too much.

(And yes, people do say they are going to Europe, if they aren't already there.)

. "There won't be snow in Africa this Christmas time" - so what? There's no fucking snow in the UK then either.

I had always assumed that was a metaphor.

I think it would be kind of ironic listening to the song this year when the government have just announced all the cuts to foreign aid

I was 12 in 1984 and those pictures of Michael Buerk's reports from the Ethiopian famine are burned into my brain. Nothing was growing. People were dying by the bucketload.

Yes I was 16 and the faces of those poor desperate people and crying babies were enough to break your heart

The song is dated I agree. However, the reason for it is not, there are still many without adequate food and shelter.

Perhaps one of the differences is that some of those without are in the UK and dependent on food banks.

Well tonight, thank God its them, instead of you.

In other words you've had the dumb luck to be born into a better situation. They haven't. We should redistribute the wealth and help anyone we can.

@makingmammaries

It wasn’t a good cause. White saviour Geldof embraced the dictator Mengistu. The aid was almost entirely appropriated by the latter’s regime, which was able to continue and expand its atrocities, luring the peasants into “feeding stations” where they were seized and forcibly resettled.

Bloody awful song, bloody awful business.

This kind of realisation has been important in hindsight, the fact is that we know a lot more now about the problems related to helping people in those kinds of situations, and the political manipulation that happens.

Trying to help people today in regimes like that still runs into those kinds of problems. Lots of charities have struggled with these problems.

But the song still represents a group of people responding to the needs of others, trying to use their influence to help, people giving their money to alleviate starvation.

@stampsurprise

. "There won't be snow in Africa this Christmas time" - so what? There's no fucking snow in the UK then either.

I had always assumed that was a metaphor.

It seems like there are a lot of people who don't do metaphor any more.

Loved the song, sent chills down my spine when I first heard it and often since. I am able to spot imagery in a song and lines about snow etc aren't hard to understand if you don't insist on taking it so literally. It's an emotive and desperate song, not a news report.

Cross post, goosefoot

Do they know it's Christmas time at all?

So where's the metaphor in that, or is it literally saying accusing an entire continent of being ignorant?

@BoingBoingyBoing
Are you serious? Have you not seen that answered several times over in this thread?

It wasn’t about “are they intelligent enough to know that a Christian festival exists” it was “how are they experiencing the joy /fun / happiness of Christmas? How is it panning out for them?”

@BoingBoingyBoing

Do they know it's Christmas time at all?

So where's the metaphor in that, or is it literally saying accusing an entire continent of being ignorant?

The sense of "knowing it's Christmas" is about knowing that people care or you - we give gifts, we have nice meals together with our loved ones, etc.

Generally we don't think of mass starvation as being a Christmas kind of state to be in.

They metaphorically don't know it's Christmas because they are in serious trouble and no one in the outside world seems to care. Which is the point of the song - it's an invitation to show them we care.

Well done for typing all that with a straight face.

Even Geldof and Ure are on record saying the lyrics are a pile of shite they turned out in about 20 minutes.

The fact is, it's a shit song that perpetuates stereotypes and blends 54 incredibly diverse nations into one blob of poverty and suffering that does nothing to educate people about Africa or address the problems it faces.

I didn't say they were particularly poetic.

I said that it's not meant to be asking literally whether they are aware it is Christmas.

I'm seriously unsure how that could be confusing to anyone over the age of 15.

Were they trying to educate people about Africa? I thought they were trying to raise money for the famine in Ethiopia.
This was certainly clear to anyone alive and of reasonable maturity at the time of release.

I’d much rather get rid of Children in Need, sentimental shite needed to embarrass people into donating money to make them feel good about themselves. It’s a national disgrace that money for these causes is disown to voluntary donations when they should be centrally funded. None of the causes featured should be dependent on charity.

But did any of the money actually get to the starving children? Why is (most of) Africa still in such a mess?

Anyway all this stuff about “snow” I’d always taken that line to mean there won’t be any fairytale Christmas time not literally that there won’t be any snow. We probably won’t have snow in UK but we still have the fairytale Christmas by comparison. Some people have a complete lack of imagination, it’s a song, not a bloody thesis.

Maybe MN can 'sticky' this

...and save us having eleventy billion threads as usual.

But it's not even bloody December yet!

Maybe someone will make a compilation Cd of all the Christmas Songs people want banned.

Midge Ure in 1984:
The great and the good of British pop are turning up in the morning to sing a song I haven't even written yet? Right you are, let's crack on lads, people will probably overlook the clunkiness, it's for charity.

The world in 2020:
Preposterous that ANYBODY could think it doesn't snow on Mt Kilimanjaro; we had to turn back due to blizzards on my gap year.

@SockYarn

YABU mentioning that hideous "C-word" in June.

I think Midge Ure, who wrote that song, said he rattled it off in 5 minutes after a call from Geldof , that it wasn't his best work and he really never imagined it'd be around so long.

YABU being a bit disingenuous about the lyrics - I was 12 in 1984 and those pictures of Michael Buerk's reports from the Ethiopian famine are burned into my brain. Nothing was growing. People were dying by the bucketload. That song was directly in response to that particular situation, and it did the job by raising millions.

Agreed.

It did it’s job of raising money in the early 80s.

Now it’s a period piece.

This. “Tonight thank god it’s them instead of yoooooooooou”. Fuck off, Bono.

Well, I'm sure there'll be plenty of opportunity to see what the next record will be OP, Ethiopia's heading towards another civil war as we speak. Can we fuck the virtue signalling and actually sort out the politics? Please? Before people start dying again?

I love it.. it was a song written with the very best of intentions in a time when we weren't as informed or knowledgeable. It raised millions and continues to do so every year. We can't wipe out songs, films books etc from the past but perhaps we can learn from them, we can tell our kids they're outdated beliefs and why we don't talk or act like that now.