Can we now finally get rid of 'Do they know it's Christmas'?

[Tokenminority]

This song drives me absolutely up the wall. It's patronising, reductive, and it completely harms efforts towards equality.

I understand the focus on equal opportunities and stopping police brutality, but other narratives, such as the pictures painted in the 'Do they know it's Christmas' song, can be just as harmful.

'Africa' is not a country. You did not go on holiday to 'Africa', similarly to how you wouldn't have sent that you went on holiday to 'Europe' when you in fact went to France.

Of course there are major problems surrounding poverty on the African continent, just as there are in other places, but African countries are not only filled with begging, malnourished children who have never seen a Christmas present.

The picture attached is a photograph of Lagos. If I went on the street and asked random people on which continent that photo was taken, would anyone even consider the possibility that it may have been Africa?

As an aside, people from the US, Australia etc do say they are going on holiday to Europe.

That song has dated sooooo badly. Great white saviour exemplified in one song.

I hate this song so much, the lyrics are atrocious. "There won't be snow in Africa this Christmas time" - so what? There's no fucking snow in the UK then either. Half of the continent is in the southern hemisphere and its therefore summer in December.

"Do they know its Christmas time at all?" - ignorant of the diverse religious beliefs and cultures of the many different countries in Africa.

In answer to your question, if I'm honest I'd have thought that was a picture of an South American country. I'm not shocked to find out its Lagos though although some people would be.

I hate it too, it's totally patronising but it was made in 1984 with good intentions. Unfortunately it's now a Christmas classic so you'll not get shops to stop playing it on a loop along with Slade.

Even as a kid I thought why would "they" know or even care it's Christmas time if they're not Christians or if they're non religious ( maybe I've missed the point).

Well no, i wouldn't say I'm going to Europe if I was going to France. But that is because I live in Europe. Other places would say that. American people, for example, say they are heading to Europe!

Obviously never heard of Mount Kilimanjaro when they wrote those lyrics

It had good intentions. It always had dire lyrics.

The holiday situation is an example, but I've seen this kind of thing on the news. Most recently, one of our former PMs (perhaps Gordon Brown, I don't remember) talked about how Covid-19 would be difficult for places such as Africa, because their medical facilities were not up to scratch. The lyrics to the band-aid song were updated in 2014, but the lyrics are still offensive.

It's just so hard. I cringe a little when people talk about how we should 'just stop being racist' and things will be fine. It might not seem like much, but portrayals such as these further add to some of the prejudiced views that come naturally to people. And they weren't meant to be racist or mean, but they erase the diversity and cultural history of an entire continent. This is a song children listen to each year, still to this date. And I don't think it is helpful.

where nothing ever grows

Looks at South African oranges, Ethiopian coffee and Kenyan beans.

When did they move continents?

Yes, this was surely what George Floyd was worrying about with that policeman’s knee on his throat.

Or the black Britons who are regularly stopped and searched. Or the the black woman or man who had persistent private sector job applications refused when a friend who’s name “sounds white” is interviewed.

@dayswithaY

I hate it too, it's totally patronising but it was made in 1984 with good intentions. Unfortunately it's now a Christmas classic so you'll not get shops to stop playing it on a loop along with Slade.

Even as a kid I thought why would "they" know or even care it's Christmas time if they're not Christians or if they're non religious ( maybe I've missed the point).

You are a little. That is an aspect, but there are plenty of African countries with a large Christian population. And those people know when Christmas is. People do not live under a rock.

YABU it was of it's time. Are you going to rid the world of all music from another time?
It raised money, it was a song for then.
The fact it was turned into a xmas song because of the word Christmas in it, is here nor there.
You could say the same for "Stop The Cavalry" also not supposed to be a Christmas song.

YABU mentioning that hideous "C-word" in June.

I think Midge Ure, who wrote that song, said he rattled it off in 5 minutes after a call from Geldof , that it wasn't his best work and he really never imagined it'd be around so long.

YABU being a bit disingenuous about the lyrics - I was 12 in 1984 and those pictures of Michael Buerk's reports from the Ethiopian famine are burned into my brain. Nothing was growing. People were dying by the bucketload. That song was directly in response to that particular situation, and it did the job by raising millions.

Found this about Christmas in Africa africawanderlust.com/destinations/african-christmas/

Who gets the royalties?

I'm not overly keen on the song but it cheers me to remember what it did i.e got millions of previously apathetic people to donate and raise money for a good cause. Should we not have done that in order not to appear as the white saviours?

Surely the worst thing about that song is that sanctimonious prick Bono singing 'Tonight thank God it's them instead of you'?

@SockYarn agree completely.

I can’t get worked up about it

Who gets the royalties?

Let me google that for you....

Charity. As it has every year since 1984.
beta.charitycommission.gov.uk/charity-details/?subid=0&regid=292199

That song was directly in response to that particular situation, and it did the job by raising millions

This. I wonder what happened to all the millions though and how much good it actually did and how much got siphoned off.

But the intentions were good and it also led to Live Aid the following year.

As for going on holiday to Africa, no I wouldn't say that. If I was going to Morocco, Egypt or South Africa I would say that. Ditto South America, I'd say I was going to Peru, Brazil or Argentina.

So you are right about that. However, I am not sure "Ethiopia" would have fitted the melody...the lyrics have been changed quite substantially in later versions.

@Stannisbaratheonsboxofmatches

Yes, this was surely what George Floyd was worrying about with that policeman’s knee on his throat.

Or the black Britons who are regularly stopped and searched. Or the the black woman or man who had persistent private sector job applications refused when a friend who’s name “sounds white” is interviewed.

I am in no way suggesting that these things are not majorly important and should be addressed immediately. But I think that people sometimes overlook the amount of every day prejudice exist in society because of simple things such as this, and they snowball and form attitudes and unconscious bias. The only time the African continent ever shows up in UK history lessons is when it was being conquered by the West, or when it was being enslaved by the West. Never on its own merit, never as its own agent.

Well tonight, thank God its them, instead of you.

I remember first really registering the "There won't be snow in Africa this Christmas" when there was a celebrity cover version made, and (I think) Joss Stone got that line. She said it was "so profound, because there won't be any snow in Africa". Snow isn't some kind of Western privilege you fake-American airhead, it's a neutral fact of global meteorology

No, we cannot get rid of it. It’s an important reminder of poverty and inequality in the world.

I get that it’s slightly patronising, but it has done a lot of good.

What about all the charity adverts all day long on ITV and channel 4 too.
Video clips of starving children walking miles to get water from a puddle?
Ive always been suspicious that it's just a profit engine for the £100000 plus salaried charity owners.