About PIL food hygiene?

[Billyjoearmstrong]

Another argument with Dh regarding his parents and food hygiene.

They basically don’t have any.

MIL will cook huge pots of food to last five days - chicken stews, pasta sauce with meat etc and leave them on the hob all that time, heating them up everyday to take a portion and then leaving it to cool down. Or she’ll cook a big lasagne and the same thing - leave it in the oven for days until it’s finished. I can’t drink a cup of tea at their house - I always thought it tasted a bit odd when I first me them and then I realised that they don’t keep milk in the fridge, they keep it on the worktop.

When they come to stay she will always bring something she’s cooked - really nice of her but it will be some sort of meat which she will have cooked days before and it will have just been left on the side in her kitchen.

FIL just dropped a roast chicken at the door merrily saying they cooked two on Friday and didn’t need it. This chicken won’t have seen a fridge - it will have been sat on the work top or in the oven since cooked.

Dh has had a go at me because I won’t let the kids have any for dinner this evening. I don’t want them getting ill.

We moved across the country to where they live just before lockdown so it’s not been a problem yet, but when they are allowed the kids over I know they will feed them and I’m so uncomfortable with the lack of food hygiene they have - it was easier being so far away as they would visit every 6 weeks and I just wouldn’t give the children any of the cooked food they brought with them.

Dh won’t listen as it’s been like that his whole life, his argument is that he’s never had a stomach bug from it so it’s
Fine.

It just makes me feel so ill thinking about it. The arguments me and Dh have about me putting food in the fridge is unreal, he doesn’t see the harm.

[AtaMarie]

Ugh this thread is giving me the heaves! And I am NOT a squeamish person generally. Nor am I OTT about food hygiene but this is next level.

There is no way I would let my children eat that food. Let DH crack on with his rancid chicken, but stand firm, OP.

[Tiktokcringeydance]

My PIL (and my Ddad ) have(had) more slack food hygiene rules than me, but not this bad OP.
I think part of it came from growing up without a fridge, so they dont see it as the same necessity as we do (or in my Ddads case he used to think that if you put something in the fridge even out of date food that it would somehow last indefinitely)

My PIL had a sea food platter at Christmas that they left out on the table overnight and the heating is on about 100 degrees they also left cheese out overnight and some sausage rolls were in a warm room for 3 days.

[Zaphodsotherhead]

Just a thought. Did his parents not put him in a proper car seat when he was young? Or do other things that have since been proven to be harmful to children?

Could you use the -'well that was the thinking then, and just because it didn't harm YOU to not be put in a carseat/be smacked round the head/be fed off food/cycle without a helmet, thinking is different now because of so many people who DID get harmed' argument?

[forgetthehousework]

Wow, did this thread actually get up to page 7 before someone suggested LTB, or did I miss it earlier?

Come on, MN, where is your sense of over-reaction?

By the way, I do think leaving food out is stupid and dangerous. I certainly wouldn't be eating it, nor would my children.

Why not have a home schooling session with dd about food hygiene - I bet when she gets to grandma's she'll be quick to point out how the grownups are doing it wrong ...

[Stannisbaratheonsboxofmatches]

That is gross.

You DH needs to educate himself and have your back on this. It needs to be sorted that he understands and supports you - however big an issue it causes - as one of your kids could get seriously ill.

My ex MIL was a bit similar, but exh was sort of aware of it. She’d do stuff like mix the cooled food from the day before into the next days meal, so obviously there was some of the mix that was getting re heated but not all, and sometimes then keep re hearing that, or mixing it into another thing...

Both she and exh also think it’s fine to put food in the fridge still in an open tin.

[CatsOfSummer]

I’ve just reread your post OP and saw they don’t even keep milk in the fridge - it would taste horrible after such a short amount of time, cereal would taste rank! Does your DH drink milk at MILs, surely the difference between worktop-milk and fridge-milk speaks for itself in terms of taste?

[Stannisbaratheonsboxofmatches]

She also puts food back into the pan from people’s plates - I.e casserole or curry or whatever that has had someone’s fork in and out of it on their plate.

[MulticolourMophead]

OP, Your DH needs to understand that regardless of him and PIL not being ill, your DC and you do not have the same resistance to bacteria, etc.

That he might not get ill, but that you and your DC are very likely to get ill. That actually, it's really not normal to be as lax in food hygiene as this.

He needs to pull his head from his arse and grow up.

How old are his parents, anyway? I'm in my early 50s, and we didn't grow up with this kind of lax hygiene, and I don't know anyone who did.

[CharmingB]

@Zaphodsotherhead

Just a thought. Did his parents not put him in a proper car seat when he was young? Or do other things that have since been proven to be harmful to children?

Could you use the -'well that was the thinking then, and just because it didn't harm YOU to not be put in a carseat/be smacked round the head/be fed off food/cycle without a helmet, thinking is different now because of so many people who DID get harmed' argument?

This is actually an excellent point.

If your DH was so incensed by them not using a car seat for your DC, even if he was never put in one and "was fine", how is that actually any different to the food situation?

In fact, I'd say there's probably far greater risk of your DC ending up ill from food poisoning than being injured in the car.

My DP gave himself campylobacter poisoning from some undercooked chicken. He was so sick for over 2 weeks - couldn't keep anything in or down. He lost about 2 stone in weight and quite frankly his stomach has never been the same since. He's not the only person I know who's ended up with long term stomach conditions as a result of food poisoning. In DP's case it was his own doing so although he's kicked himself for it since, he does only have himself to blame.

Could your DH live with himself (or the DGPs for that matter) if DD were to become seriously ill? This website www.food.gov.uk/safety-hygiene/campylobacter specifically says "Children under five and older people are most at risk because they may have weaker immune systems"

It's honestly like he's willing to leave his DD's health to a lottery... YANBU to be very angry with him OP. It would really make me look on him in a different light.

[Rosebel]

There is a simple solution just don't let your daughter go without you. That way you can make sure she's not eating there. Or send her over after tea, if she just has toast or cereal the next morning she should be OK.
Your in laws and husband are probably okay as they've always eaten that way and perhaps you get resistant to it if you're exposed for long enough (?)
I wouldn't eat there or anything they brought round, just invite them to yours for food. Unfortunately I don't think you'll change your husband or his parents. You have to decide if you can put it or if it's a deal breaker.

[Billyjoearmstrong]

I’ve spoken to him today.

I’ve told him that I’m stamping down on his shit habits in the house. He actually chucked the rest of that chicken in the bin (tried to go via the cat but I reminded him how much vets bills cost for an elderly cat and that he’d been cleaning the carpet if the cat got the shits). When he cooks, the food is going in the fridge for the next day, no arguments.

He still doesn’t see the problem with his mums habits but has conceded that he would feel terrible if Dd got ill. So he’s with me on her not eating that food there.

He asked if I was ok with her eating snack food there like beans on toast/cheese on toast/pizza etc and yes, that’s fine. Just no meals that have been cooked in advance. So he will clear that with his mum when the time comes for her to go there - and to be honest, if it was for a sleepover we’ve said we’d get a couple of oven pizzas/popcorn so they could have a fun evening and it would take the issue of dinner away.

And I will send her with her own milk to drink in the evening in case she wants some!

I didn’t mention previously but I’m pregnant and high risk - I may have to stay in hospital for a while near when I’m due and possibly after at the end of August. Which is why the food hygiene thing is playing on my mind a lot more now as MIL realistically is the only person who could help in an emergency (Ds is 17 but he will be worried about me and I don’t want to heap all the responsibility of looking after a six year old on him all the time).

Dh will still be working from home and will need help from his mum for a few hours a day so he can have meetings if I’m not here to keep Dd occupied.

I’ve told him that I don’t want Dd going to stay there. He’s agreed that he’ll get his mum to come here during the day while he’s working for a few hours so that Dd will eat the food here (I plan to batch cook and freeze in portions over the next few weeks!)

He’s also going to take them to Halfords when lockdown is over and get a high back booster fitted in their car incase they have to take her anywhere now that we live closer to them.

I honestly thought when they took dd out that time that they had one (and MIL did say she had DN ‘seat’ in the car ). SIL has three Young children who PIL look after each day while she works and drives them to and from school so obviously I though she meant proper seats!

Someone mentioned up above about car seats when Dh was small - I doubt he had one but then again, my parents didn’t either in the early 80s. I remember making a den in the back seat wells and the parcel shelf of the hatchback when I was a toddler in the car

My dad, however, would never have dreamed of not using correct car seats for Ds and Dd and always went to get the correct size fitted in his car for them for if I needed a lift - I was naive to think that all grandparents move with the times and safety measures.

[Billyjoearmstrong]

Oh and for family dinners etc we will be inviting them here and I will cook. We’ll spin it as giving MIL a break now that we live so close. Dh was happy with that (will make him look like the golden child over lazy SIL, so that swung it for him).

[Griselda1]

I'm recovering from a bout of food poisoning,I'm vegan and it's been a long time since I experienced anything like it. It seems to have originated from a precooked/steamed pack of food which was stored properly but the cellophane seems to have perforated. I felt so ill and really wouldn't wish it on anyone let alone a child. In the same way as covid-19 made many of us rethink our hand washing I think food hygiene needs regularly revisited.

[hereweg0aga1n]

I read this whole thread last night and was shocked but also not as my late Nan was very similar. She was blind in one eye so no one would say anything. But I agree with your latest updates I think they are great ideas and congrats on the pregnancy. Best wishes and health x

[DontStandSoCloseToMe]

I'm very relaxed about bbe dates etc but there has to be a limit, especially when the weather is relatively warm. Having said that I used to have a neighbour an older woman living alone, who would roast a chicken on a Sunday and then take a week to gradually eat it. The whole time it would sit on the stove top covered with a tea towel 'to keep the dirty flies off' , even in the height of summer. She lived to over 100.

[timeisnotaline]

Also, first sign of he’s not on board, you need to run a family hygiene session. Kids are the best police- word them up now your dad doesn’t believe in Food hygiene so you will need to remind him. Then you have 7yo piping up at the grandparents ‘if you leave chicken out overnight it’s green under a microscope with ’. And ‘dad dad you left the dinner in the oven it will grow salmonella and KILL US ALL’. That’s what would happen at my house anyway!

[SamsMumsCateracts]

My dad ate a meal at relative's house, who has similar very poor hygiene standards. He was too polite to refuse and ended up in intensive care with campylobacter. We came very close to losing him. You don't fuck about with food hygiene. No way would 8 let the PILs feed your child!

[JesusInTheCabbageVan]

His Mum and dad (his mum especially) are saints to him and everything his mum does is perfect. He doesn’t like it when it’s pointed out that she might be wrong about something. He’s like a needy 8 year old stuck in a mans body when It comes to MIL.

We’ll spin it as giving MIL a break now that we live so close. Dh was happy with that (will make him look like the golden child over lazy SIL, so that swung it for him).

And you mention you're pregnant with your second child.

It's great that he's seeing sense about food hygeine, but it sounds very much like there are wider issues here that need to be addressed. As pps have said, it is not normal for an adult to worship their parents to this extent. Plus must grown siblings really don't care about who's 'better', certainly not to the extent that you can use that as leverage to win arguments.

It really does sound like he's had quite a dysfunctional upbringing, have you ever discussed his childhood? There's a Wikipedia page on dysfunctional families which you may find helpful, here.

The point is, if he doesn't address any issues with his upbringing now, he'll repeat them. It won't have been so noticeable with one DC (though you've already had problems with food hygiene and sulking/neediness). When the second DC is born, you may be heading for trouble.

[Billyjoearmstrong]

@JesusInTheCabbageVan I find it so odd. I’m actually a mental health nurse and I did dig at thee start of our relationships. But no, it all seems to have been perfectly normal. His siblings aren’t like him. He just adores his parents and thinks they are perfect - he’s incapable of seeing them as real people with flaws.

It’s like when a seven year old thinks their mummy is the most wonderful thing in the world and then as you grow up, you realise that your Parents aren’t perfect abs wonderful, they are people with good and bad personality traits.

I’ve spoken to his brother about it - he doesn’t know why Dh puts them on such a pedestal still. He’s not like that with Dd or Ds, we both encourage them to speak out if they don’t agree with something we’ve said etc.

I could understand if there had been some form of abuse or neglect and he was over compensating but there wasn’t.

MIL, apart from the questionable food hygiene and love of shopping, is a really lovely person. But even she points out her flaws so I don’t know where it’s come from.

[Billyjoearmstrong]

FWIW, his siblings just let the poor food hygiene slide. I think they all think there isn’t a problem as they all grew up eating it, although SIL and BIL are both long term vegetarians.

[Puzzledandpissedoff]

He asked if I was ok with her eating snack food there like beans on toast/cheese on toast/pizza etc and yes, that’s fine. Just no meals that have been cooked in advance. So he will clear that with his mum when the time comes for her to go there

Couple of potential issues there ... firstly, I wonder whether what he says to his sainted mum will bear any resemblance to what you think he's agreed

And secondly, what makes you think she'll serve up whatever you send with the DCs, and that she won't substitute her "much better, home cooked food" instead?

[Billyjoearmstrong]

@Puzzeld I know what you are saying, but it wasn’t a bad outcome for a conversation with Dh about it.

His mum is actually okay. I do trust her to feed Dd what I send her with. It’s FIL who can be overbearing but MIL is the sort to tell him to shut up when she sees it.

I will probably be the one to tell her at the end of the day. I just felt it’s her sons place in the first instance. And I do really like her. She is a really nice person. It’s not about the fight with her. It’s Dh (and some of his aunts/uncles who were there when we went for a long weekend when Dd was a baby, but they all live a long way off so not an issue).

The only time I’ve felt floored by her was over the car seat incident. Which did make me re think my relationship with her for a while. But dh did deal with that situation.

I’ve done the best I can for now, while it’s not an issue because of lockdown. There won’t be any visits until this baby is a few Months old In any case so we are talking after Xmas at least (unless MIL has to come here in an emergency). So it gives me time.

[Billyjoearmstrong]

But I won’t back down and if no one listens to me then there
Will be no unaccompanied visits for Dd. I’m not messing around with her health.

[BoxOfBabyCheeses]

I have only read your posts OP, so this may have been mentioned above.

Studies show that children who grow up with poor hygiene have stronger immune systems. So your DH and his siblings will not become ill from general bad hygiene.

The problem is that your DD has not been exposed to the same germs. Because of this she is more likely to become ill, as her immune system hasn't been exposed to it.

Maybe explain this to your husband, acknowledge that his parents have never made him or his siblings ill. This might sound less accusatory to him. Or even play up that as awful as he would feel if your DD got sick, imagine how awful his mum would feel!

[BeeB29]

That sounds vile. I’m surprised they haven’t made themselves ill.

I can relate. My mum isn’t great with food hygiene either. Not as bad as you’ve explained but she doesn’t always put left overs in the fridge and wj leave it in the cooled oven or in the grill to eat the next day.

Maybe this is why I never get ill as an adult 🤣 needless to say I take food hygiene very seriously since I moved out.

YANBU though. Surely your partner and most people would understand how unhygienic it is?

Don’t let your kids eat her food.