To ask for your experiences after a traumatic first birth

[CrayonedWalls]

I’d love your support/virtual hand hold on a question I’ve been asking myself for a little while, relating to a second child after a traumatic first delivery.

Two years ago, I had my first child, a little boy. He is awesome, so much of parenthood has been a total joy with him so far and we are lucky to have him.

I had a straightforward pregnancy with him and was active throughout. However, birth was a totally different story. Due to reduced fetal movement he was induced. I won’t go into too much detail but suffice to say - fetal distress, episiotomy, enormous blood loss, horrific delivery in theatre and some pretty bad birth injuries for me to this day.

Of course, I feel very grateful that we walked out of hospital with both of us alive, but the effect on my body has been lasting.

I’ve been to the GP several times (GP pretty dismissive) for both the physical and mental distress and received some counselling. No one has at any point said it would be risky to have another baby.

I’m now 32. Right now the thought of having another child frightens me. To be clear - I’m not traumatised by the hospital experience I had the first time around, I have made my peace with that. But my body is changed forever down there, and I’m concerned about the additional effect a second baby might have. I’m not sure the healthcare professionals I’ve seen have taken me seriously - they’ve basically brushed off the concerns l have about what would happen if I had to go through labour again.

I smile through my friends’ conversations about breathing the baby out, their neat Caesarian scars, how perfect it all was...then I go home and cry. I’m pleased for them but I feel birth injury is a massive unspoken subject that women are just expected to put up with as part of motherhood.

I’d love to hear from anyone who has been in my position and went on to have other children. How did you come to the decision, and did you approach your midwife appointments differently second time around? Did you have an elective section?

I’d also love to hear from anyone who’s been here and who decided to stop trying for any more children. Right now that’s what I’m leaning towards - while I’d love two children I already have a great one, DH is entirely supportive of whatever I decide, and I’m not sure I can put my body through any more.

Your advice and experiences are really appreciated.

I had a very similar first birth to you - forceps delivery and huge blood loss. I lost 3 litres and was ill for a very long time. I also went on to develop PND which I think had something to do with the birth as well.

I had an elective section for my second. I was classed as high risk and whilst my consultant did give me the stats which show I could have had a straightforward birth, he respected my decision and I was supported. I also had support from the perinatal mental health midwife due to my previous experience of PND.

My section was lovely and I recovered far more quickly than I did with my vaginal birth. I did have a wobble laying down on the operating table but I think knowing that I had chosen this and that it was a completely different type of birth was very helpful for me.

I think as well that I knew I had been through a traumatic birth and come out the other side, I knew I could do so again if it came to that.

@sqidgebum thank you for your post and the very best of luck with your pregnancy and birth!! I am taken aback by your experience and I hope your second labour helps to take even a little of that painful memory away.

@makeupface I think that’s a good tip about getting the right advice and even changing GP. I have considered using my work medical insurance to see a birth specialist so maybe that’s the way to go. And there will definitely be no second attempt at a home birth here, no siree!! 😂

@mammabee20 please please don’t apologise - if it helps at all I read every word you wrote several times and i am hugely grateful to you for sharing. I can’t believe the care you received. I hope you have people to share this with in the non Mumsnet world too. I’m sorry that your instincts were overlooked so many times. Thank you - I will make sure mine are heard.

@needmoremummyjuice I am taking notes! It sounds as though you were really in control and got the advice you needed. HUGE best wishes for the birth of your baby. I’m sure your gran is looking down and smiling x

@theyweretheworstoftimes 100% agree lockdown has magnified everything and parenting has become a total grind. I feel the guilt too. Please don’t be too hard on yourself.

@iolaus I think a shift change actually saved my life. If I’d kept my original midwife I’m not sure she’d have cared enough to get us to the consultant. One of my only memories of the final stage of labour is asking my DH when we were momentarily alone - ‘please seriously do you think they know what they’re doing?’. It was a very frightening moment because frankly they didn’t.

@Useruseruserusee good for you for getting the right result for you. Sounds hugely positive. Similar experience - my blood loss was incorrectly recorded (I had lost exactly the same as you, I knew it was serious because I remember seeing a midwife walk past the operating table with my blood in a bag the size of a carrier bag) so initially when my notes said I had only had minimal loss I was discharged early with just some iron tablets - you should see the photos of me on our first night home, I’m so pale I am actually green. I stayed that colour for weeks. Luckily my community midwife was almost literally a saint and came to see me every single day. I’ll remember her forever.

I am glad it was helpful. My whole family praise me everyday because none of them think my son would be here today if it wasn’t for me and my instincts. I kept telling them from November that something was wrong but no one listened to me.

So when it turned out it was bad and they said they would keep him in for another 3 weeks I flipped my lid. My aftercare was terrible too, 2 days after having the c section I was in transitional care so that I could learn to look after my premature baby and this woman that worked on the ward (she wasn’t a midwife) told me that the buzzers to alert the midwives are switched off and they will go get them if we desperately need their attention. One day when I was furious about the lack of care I was told by a nursery staff from the ward that I was being selfish as I am considered a well mum and that I shouldn’t expect their care I was 2 days post surgery, I was fuming.

The paediatricians were useless, they would come and look at my son and take his weight than leave. I am absolutely disgusted in the care he received.

What made all this worse is that during this is that one of my support networks was my mum. She lost my twin sister when I was 3 months old and she would be in the hospital making comments such as if anything happens to him I’ll be here for you as I know what it is like to lose a child

I was glad I fought for his health and his life. I felt like it mattered to me and it was important to me that he lived but it didn’t feel like that with the doctors or the hospital. He was another figure another baby due to be born. They even said to me they would quickly intervene if anything started to drop with his vitals and I couldn’t believe it because it already looked bad so why did it need to get worse before they tried to make it better

My grandma read an article to me 3 days after he was born about a woman whose instincts were ignored and the baby was born stillborn. I am just grateful it didn’t end up like that.

I’m not surprised you’re in two minds as to whether to consider another DC. My story is different from yours as I never gave birth vaginally - I had a first traumatic delivery (failed induction ending in EMCS) and a second, more healing, birth (ELCS) 4.5 years later.

I always wanted more than one child and the pull of a larger family and the positives of a second child ultimately won out for me; I think hormones were involved too as I was quite broody from DC1 being around 3. I felt I would regret not having a second more than having a second difficult birth - but I’m not you and living with your injuries so this may not apply.

Firstly, I’d recommend a birth reflections appointment if you haven’t had one (apologies if I missed a post). You get to go over what happened with a midwife and this may be helpful in terms of risks of a second birth.

My experience was that once I was pregnant, it was very difficult to get objective information tailored to me and my pregnancy - eg my consultant kept insisting I had a 70% chance of a successful VBAC whereas the information I found strongly suggested the odds of an uncomplicated vaginal delivery were significantly lower than that based on my history.

Secondly, I would do whatever you can to prepare mentally before you get pregnant - for me, despite being under the perinatal team, the support was not there pre-birth. Rewind therapy might be an option, ditto EMDR if you think you may have post-natal PTSD.

I got pregnant rather unexpectedly four years after my first birth and in hindsight, although I’d had counselling, I could have done with more before this happened. I ended up paying for some private sessions with a perinatal psychologist when I was pregnant, which helped in terms of coping with the pregnancy and impending birth. I would strongly recommend seeing someone who specialises in perinatal issues rather than a generic counsellor.

I ended up going for an ELCS at 41 weeks, because I was in two minds about whether to try for a VBAC. I didn’t labour so I had the section. This was the right decision for me. It was calm, controlled, and the staff knew I had had a bad experience previously and were absolutely wonderful.

Good luck and I hope you come to the right decision for you.

My first two births were both really rough - especially the first which was an induction.

Although I totally appreciate it's not everyone's cup of tea, I had a home birth with my third 13 days ago and it's honestly one of the best decisions I have ever made.

Can't believe the difference on every level!

I'm unlikely to have any more babies as I'm 39 now, but if I did I would absolutely plan for another home birth.

The blood loss was the worst part, DH has a vivid memory of practically splashing in it as it was everywhere. I had three blood transfusions and IV vitamins and minerals too, I’m really shocked that you didn’t! I was kept in hospital for around a week, they looked after me well and it was no one’s fault it happened but that doesn’t stop it being awful.

@Nicknamegoeshere

My first two births were both really rough - especially the first which was an induction.

Although I totally appreciate it's not everyone's cup of tea, I had a home birth with my third 13 days ago and it's honestly one of the best decisions I have ever made.

Can't believe the difference on every level!

I'm unlikely to have any more babies as I'm 39 now, but if I did I would absolutely plan for another home birth.

I don’t think the OP would be allowed a home birth given her previous haemorrhage. I wasn’t given an option as it classified me as high risk.

Thank you @TwoKidsStillStanding - I’m glad you got your healing experience and got good care. It’s so hard because as I say, I walked out alive with a healthy baby. Do I gamble again? I’m currently stuck in the pull of the second child, but if it never happens I will make my peace with it.

I had traumatic births for my 4th and 5th babies. My 5th baby was very much unplanned and his birth ended up being worse than dc4's. I'm lucky in that I didn't want any more children after my 5th anyway so didn't have to make the decision about whether to risk another traumatic birth.

Yes @Nicknamegoeshere, @Useruseruserusee is probably right. And even without the medical confirmation that I couldn’t have a home birth, it would take a seismic shift for me to consider one again. And I say that as someone who was fully signed up the first time around, birthing pool and towels in the living room ready to go!!

If I can explain it one way...my first labour seems to have sent me in completely the other direction. Last time around I was set on a home birth, did meditation and hypnobirthing, bought the herbs, you name it.

The physical state I’m in now means I have no desire to have another vaginal birth whatsoever, and with it goes all desire for a birthing pool, doing it ‘just on gas and air’ etc etc.

Really when I reflect, I have no attachment to the birthing process at all now. If I decide to try to get pregnant again, my concern will be only for a healthy baby delivered with the most minimal damage. And I know that can’t be guaranteed, hence my dilemma really.

Hi OP, I had a bad first birth, 52 hour labour, keilland’s forceps, shoulder dystocia etc. The damage to my vagina, womb, bladder and bowel was so bad that I was told the morning after by the obstetrician that his repairs would not stand up to another pregnancy and I risked permanent dual incontinence and that was it for me. I had dual incontinence for 6 months and both DS and I have still have ongoing problems 8 years later. I’m lucky as my DH has been great and my mental health has been fine. We have no sex life to speak of and I was never offered any sort of aftercare or counselling. Got to love the NHS! Good luck OP with whatever you decide.

Thank you so much for sharing that @queenunikitty. You’ve done amazingly to come out of the other side of that experience

Of course you raise the excellent notion that to have other baby I’d actually have to have sex again...my DH has been incredible - very patient and no pressure whatsoever, but I struggle incredibly with it. I think quietly he’d be content to never go through any of the actual labour and baby stuff ever again, but I do feel like my reluctance outside of that must feel a bit miserable for him.

Hi OP,
I was induced for both of mine. The first was not great, no one believed I was in labour. I begged for a check (while still having the pessary in me) and oh surprise I was 8cm... no pain relief for an hour while they tried to find me a room to labour and deliver in (I was still on the induction ward at this point). DC1 was born a couple of hours later and I tore badly and then because of the extent of the tear I had to have a plastic surgeon stitch me up (I think - I was out of it at this point) and due to a relatively minor haemorrhage while waiting I then crashed while being stitched up. The next 24 hours were not great, I could not sit up physically - they tried to sit me up but my bp went down to the bad zone, I had oxygen, catheter, drips and antibiotics and the most painful internal examination I've ever had. I was very poorly for a few weeks afterwards. The one thing I remember was not being able to bend my wrists because of the lines meant I could not do anything for DC1. Dh came into his own that night! I had a room next to midwife station and someone sat in the room with me for most of the rest of the first day doing checks so I think I must have been quite ill.
Second DC we had moved and I chose a hospital out of borough which meant I got a specific (wonderful) midwife for all my checks. Induced again (dont think I was ever willingly going to go into labour after the first!) but a totally different story. It sounds so weird now but I had a total sense of being in control this time and I was able to articulate myself so much better and ask for what I 'knew' I needed at that point. DC2 I tore in the same way but aftercare was amazing and I felt actually ok. It makes me cry because I can still remember how amazed I was at NOT feeling awful, and thinking that's how it should have been the first time. I think it almost healed me emotionally. I always knew I wanted more than one DC if possible and I thought I would at least try to get pg so the decision was 'easy' in a way. Due to various other things we will likely not try again but DC2 birth made me think a birth can be ok.
Hope you're ok

OP, I had a similar experience with my first. Back to back baby boy, labour went on for days, failed epidurals and spinals, foetal distress, huge episiotomy and traumatic tearing with eventual forceps. I felt like I’d been in a massive car crash and barely survived.

The obstetrician spoke to me after and said that I should take the fact that they had been able to deliver him vaginally as a positive, and in all likelihood a further vaginal delivery would go well now the route had been used! I thought, not a chance...

But I knew I wanted another and did eventually get pregnant again after a big gap. I imagined I’d be insisting on an elective section but you know as the time came near I guess my pregnancy hormones made me feel ready to try a vaginal birth...and I kind of thought why cause more damage in an another area with a section, I’ll keep it all confined to the same place. This time I really focussed in optimal foetal positioning, spinning babies program, perineal massage...everything I could do for a “good” labour...and yes, I breathed baby out, literally no pushing, just all that involuntary muscle action...it was amazing. I felt high as a kite after....and had a third after that too in very similar fashion.

I’ve done the MUTU program to improve my pelvic floor, and at this point I have to say I’m pretty glad that I didn’t have the section. My abdomen is in good condition, and I think the damage done to my perineum all happened with the first, so the 2nd and 3rd were pretty inconsequential which is the best I could hope for really versus automatically giving me more wounds and weakness to deal with in another area of my body.

First birth episiotomy plus 2nd degree tear. One or both took two years to heal properly. Waited until healed before trying for second.

Other smaller issues with first birth as well....

When I was healed, we started on number two who is now here. Third degree tear which healed in less than two months. But there are other smaller issues.

I had specific problems after first, they luckily sorted themself out. Happy to chat over dm to see if there any parallels that could help you?

To add, I requested a copy of my full first birth record (mostly to clarify my memory around one of the smaller issues...) and it really helped me.

@myotherusernameisonholiday @DC3dilemma thank you both for such uplifting stories - I’m so glad you had positive experiences.

@LemonDrizzles having read your post through a couple of times I’m just not sure I could put myself through another delivery and suffer the same injuries. I have quite thick scar tissue so even though superficially I am ‘healed’, that area is badly damaged. I agree on getting a copy of my birth record though. Even if it’s just so I know what they’d base their judgement on next time.

Hello

My first birth was nothing short of horrific (Induced due to cervix being crap, baby back to back, episiotomy, lots and lots of blood, fetal distress, being sick on my husband and telling everyone who would listen that I genuinely just wanted to die, baby whisked away as when eventually born - he wasn’t responsive - you get the picture) . I was so traumatised it effected by bonding with baby and breastfeeding.

However, I summoned the courage to have another and second popped out in 5 pushes.

I have piles and I have to be religious with my pelvic floor.

Worth it though.

I have a terrible birth with my first and when I found out I was pregnant with my second I was absolutely terrified. I mentioned this to my midwife and she arranged for me to speak to someone on the delivery suite and go over my notes from the delivery to really understand what happened. I was still terrified afterwards but at least I knew the things I didn't want to happen! And the second birth was do much better and quicker. I'd even go as far as to say it was a nice experience!!! Good luck x

Hi OP

I had a very long (72 hours) labour and was so exhausted I was hallucinating, episiotomy, blood loss that caused me to collapse when I thought I could get up 2 days later, and retained placenta. The second labour was heading the same way but I did feel and my husband felt a lot more confident arguing my case, they put me on an epidural and hormone drip much quicker. I tore but that healed so much quicker than a cure (though the direction of the tear meant I was incontinent for 6 weeks). I didnt have a retained placenta the second time which I was surprised about. Although it was a better experience, nothing on earth would convince me to go through it again.

I agree birth injury is not talked about, infact it is worse - its laughed about, people were always making jokes when I was pregnant about vaginas after childbirth being like mens favourite pubs burning down etc. There is a horrible 'well you knew what you were getting into' type mentality that means people are very unsympathetic, far more so than when other injuries are reasonably foreseeable (eg if someone does adventure sports or has a dangerous job).

In your shoes I'd see if I could get an appointment with a consultant even if I had to do this privately, to look at the cold hard facts, the statistics around how what happened the first time may influence the second time. And don't feel any pressure to make any decision either way or having a section if you can't face the risk - it's easy for other people to say it's a small risk but they dont have to live with it. Good luck!

Just reading all of these has made me remember some òther quality advice.

My nice hippy midwife suggested I draw hard lines, so no forceps for example. The consultant was appalled as I explained to him that this wouldn't work. If you get to forceps stage then you need them no one wants them!
However she did suggest a talking therapy. It's not on the nhs . It's called the rewind technique..I was quite upset during a few routine midwife appointments. Partly as I felt a section was the right call and my husband was v v keen but that it was a wimpy way out. I wasn't a good mum for being able to sneeze the baby out and enjoy the pain as my baby yoga mums did! (I'm aware this is ridiculous but blame hormones. Now ive had a section I dpmt feel this. Just delighed at how much better it was.)

The rewind technique is about separating the emotion from the memory so it becomes less traumatic. I considered a birth reflection but I know what happened it's the emotion that I needed to address. Might be worth a look even if you think it sounds like nonsense.
Also talk to some mum pals. There's more of us damaged ones than you realise. I hope whatever you decide you are content!

I have one child. If the birth and after care experience had been different, maybe we'd have had more, who knows? But the experience was such that DH and I were both so traumatized that we never wanted to go through it again. It has been 16yrs.

I actually don't want to write the birth experience here, as it still brings it back and upsets me. 16yrs. I've written stuff twice now and deleted it. Basics. Failure to progress beyond 2cm results in Emergency C-section. I am terrified. More much more.

Sorry, I can't write it. Basics. inconsistent after-care. mental health suffers. More much more.

But we have lived and loved and accepted our family is complete at one child.

Completely empathise.

First labour was awful. Induced, induction went wrong, waters were broken, babies heartbeat slowed down, forceps/episiotomy and scarring that took months to heal and still causes problems occasionally.

Was determined second wasnt going to be like that so went down the homebirth route (i found myself daydreaming about accidentally giving birth at home to avoid having to go near a hospital). Went all in with hypnobirthing too. Ended up having a boringly textbook waterbirth in my dining room. Nothing of note at all. It hurt, dont get me wrong but I didnt need any pain relief (,part of my determination to avoid the problems of the first one). I honestly felt great afterwards too.

Best thing I ever did as it completely changed my views of childbirth

I had a bad childbirth experience and I still have pain and injury years later. Originally I wanted two children but I decided I couldn’t put my body through that again. Once was bad enough - a second time would literally destroy me. I don’t want to wreck myself to the point where I can’t live my life and parent my existing child.

First birth was posterior. No contractions just a continuous wall of pain. Refused to take me to a delivery suite so was on a public ward for five hours - children visiting behind a curtain. Midwife thought it was hysterically funny I couldn't cope with the pain at barely 1/2 a cm. Gave me pethidine without my permission.

Eventually taken to delivery room and given an epidural. Heartbeat disappeared and midwife said it was a problem with the belt and hoiked it up. Told DH to get a coffee as I was ages away and left to get herself a sandwich. Heartbeat went again and I couldn't reach the buzzer. Midwife returned and said belt was faulty again. I wanted to push and she said it was impossible - I insisted and I had gone from zilch to fully dilated in an hour. Heartbeat went again and again she hoiked up the belt. Fortunately DH put his head out of the door and boomed "I want a Dr in here right now". Head midwife appeared and took one lookcand hit the red button. Room filled with people. DS had the cord wrapped round his neck. Too far out for a section. The midwife cut the cord before he was born and the Dr gave me one push while he got the forceps ready and before cutting. I don't know how I did it but I summoned every ounce of strength and broke a blood vessel in my eye and ds was born. He was bright blue and took ages to resuscitate. He spent the first night in scbu.

I actually only tore a little but the trauma stayed with me for years. My pelvic floor is weak and 20 years or so on I developed faecal incontinence. I won't go into the post natal care

Dd was quick and easy but I insisted on consultant led care and onlyagred to a vaginal birth with a guarantee of an experienced and excellent midwife