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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To ask if you support the Black Lives Matter movement and also supported Corbyn

84 replies

Jenala · 07/06/2020 20:34

I imagine a lot of the protest supporters also supported Corbyn when he was Labour leader. For clarity I support the protest but I didn't support Corbyn. It was regularly said that he was a lifelong anti-racist which may be true in some contexts but he certainly had antisemitic views which was why I couldn't support him. I didnt get this from the media, I actually voted for him in the leadership election. Then I heard about the antisemitism accusations and so I did a lot of research including reading old articles he's written etc and came to my own conclusions. Whatever you think of that, it's undeniable he presided over the party during a time of enormous amounts of antisemitism too.

Which brings me to why I find it hard to see how people reconcile both supporting him and supporting the protests. I've seen a lot on here about how the protests are about a group being systemically oppressed, being unjustly prejudiced against, and crucially that people who say they have experienced racism need to be believed, their experiences matter and their feelings are valid. All great. Yet arguably you can make all the same arguments about Jewish people. As a group they have been oppressed, brutalised and murdered for hundreds and hundreds of years. Nazism may be the most famous and awful example but Jewish people experienced regular pogroms and massacres throughout the world for years before that.

Before anyone suggests it, I'm not arguing one group is more victimised than the other, at all. I'm saying we have two groups who have experienced enormous injustice based on immutable characteristics ('those of Jewish heeitage are targeted as much as practicing Jews hence immutable) who I would argue should both be believed and supported when they name their experiences. Yet when the British Jewish community raised their concerns about Corbyn et al, they were disbelieved, ridiculed, accused of smears etc.

Why are one group rightly believed and supported by the majority (with a minority of people called out for their lack of understanding) when the other group were disbelieved and not supported by the majority? If you support both how do you reconcile it for yourself? I don't see how it's anything other than hypocritical to ignore the legitimate grievances of the Jewish community while being able to understand and support the grievances of the BAME community. I'm glad people are taking the protests seriously but it seems to be that all oppressed minorities should be heard - this did not happen when Corbyn was leader and many good people were willing to look the other way.

OP posts:
SnackSizeRaisin · 28/06/2020 22:01

Corbyn is not perfect but the Tories are much worse in terms of windrush and islamophobia. Also the Tories have inflicted huge misery on huge numbers of ordinary people through austerity. I can't see how them winning can ever be better than more or less any labour leader.

OliviaPopeRules · 28/06/2020 22:02

I support some of the aims of BLM not not the actual association (or whatever they are classed as), I wouldn't after what I saw them tweet today if I had before. Never voted for Corbyn.
I think the UK BLM may not even be affiliated to the US group, but could have misunderstood on that.

Bluegrasstrail · 28/06/2020 22:06

This is a bit of a strange question considering the UK BLM (whomever they actually are) twitter account is currently weighing in on the Israel/Palestine issue and are being accused of spreading antisemitic conspiracy theories themselves. Also talk about being anti capitalist and refer to other members as comrades...

DeeCeeCherry · 28/06/2020 22:19

I support Palestine and am not anti-Semitic. I've never called anyone comrade or been called so. Discrediting BLM seems to be more important than ending racism. I can understand this due to influence of right wing government and media, and general racism and xenophobia. So it's expected.

FB have had advertising pulled. Billions lost in shares value because they won't halt the flourish of race hate groups/race hate speech. Good. I hope that spreads across the board.

Times are changing and that's hard for some to accept.

hibbledobble · 28/06/2020 22:22

I support anyone's right to peaceful protest, when it is safe to do so. It currently isn't safe for mass gatherings to take place, due to an ongoing pandemic.

I also do not support violence, abuse of police officers, or vandalism, all of which is happening at black lives matter protests.

I don't support JC either, because he is anti-Semitic. anti-Semitism seems to be acceptable to so many people, it's shocking. It is racism, pure and simple. Anyone who is happy to support a racist is disgraceful.

hibbledobble · 28/06/2020 22:28

Thank you for those who pointed out the UK BLM Twitter account. I have read it and it is thinly veiled anti-Semitism.

Euclid · 28/06/2020 22:33

Corbyn is anti Semite and way out of touch and should never have been leader of the Labour Party. This country is not interested in his far left theories as was very sadly demonstrated by the general election. Boris Johnson is ghastly for many reasons but the public chose him over Corbyn. I am not a member of any party but am very impressed by Sir Keir Starmer, especially in PMQ. He is so far ahead of the awful PM.

OliviaPopeRules · 28/06/2020 22:35

@DeeCeeCherry

I support Palestine and am not anti-Semitic. I've never called anyone comrade or been called so. Discrediting BLM seems to be more important than ending racism. I can understand this due to influence of right wing government and media, and general racism and xenophobia. So it's expected.

FB have had advertising pulled. Billions lost in shares value because they won't halt the flourish of race hate groups/race hate speech. Good. I hope that spreads across the board.

Times are changing and that's hard for some to accept.

You can't end racism by being anti-Semitic, it's really that simple. It's not about discrediting BLM.
Bebbanburger · 28/06/2020 22:36

I support BLM. I voted for Jeremy Corbyn. I have sympathy with Palestinians. I am not anti-Semitic.

DeeCeeCherry · 28/06/2020 22:39

You can't end racism by being anti-Semitic, it's really that simple. It's not about discrediting BLM

This appears to have nothing to do with what I said.

All these type of posts are about discrediting BLM in one way or another, no matter how it's dressed up.

OliviaPopeRules · 28/06/2020 22:42

@DeeCeeCherry

You can't end racism by being anti-Semitic, it's really that simple. It's not about discrediting BLM

This appears to have nothing to do with what I said.

All these type of posts are about discrediting BLM in one way or another, no matter how it's dressed up.

I suggest you read their twitter feed today and the anti-Semitic crap they have been posting. The UK organisation are discrediting themselves.
DeeCeeCherry · 28/06/2020 22:43

I see it's dragged out the "peaceful protest only" crew. Yes - All those peaceful protests that have been studiously and conveniently ignored for decade upon decade. Resulting in what's happening now due to people not listening, and ignoring civil and human rights abuse based on race and colour.

Not enough people saw racist abuse and murder as the heinous violence that it is. So here we are.

LakieLady · 28/06/2020 22:52

Yes to both.

I met Corbyn several times during the 1980s and have heard him speak many times. I have also read a lot of articles he's written. I have never heard him say or read anything he's written that carries even the merest hint of anti-Semitism.

The media portrayals of him often bear no resemblance to the man I've met.

FarFrom · 28/06/2020 23:02

I support BLM of course. And Corbyn. I am of Jewish heritage. He is not antisemitic- he has spent his life fighting racism. I loathe what Israel has done and does to Palestine. As do my Israeli family. I wish we lived in a world in which Corbyn had become prime minister. There would have been change to structural racism and racist inequality.

LakieLady · 28/06/2020 23:20

@DeeCeeCherry, I sometimes think that when the Powers That Be are discrediting an organisation or a movement, it's a sign that it's being effective. Grin

LakieLady · 28/06/2020 23:31

@SummerWhisper, thank you for mentioning the heel-dragging that went on at Labour HQ by apparatchiks who think they are bigger and more important than the membership.

They're in the ascendancy now, so hopefully will crack on and do whatever's necessary to rid the party of any anti-Semitic elements.

DeeCeeCherry · 28/06/2020 23:31

LakieLady Same thoughts🙂.

famousforwrongreason · 29/06/2020 02:18

What a goady thread. Corbyn is not antisemitic but he did speak out about the atrocities carried out by the Israeli government.
What's your real agenda in trying to shame Corbyn supporters and anti racists?
Also... I keep hearing about anti semetism in the Labour Party but never saw or heard any concrete evidence and many Jewish people were in support of Corbyn and his politics.
The anti Corbyn frenzy has no relevance now. The media has succeeded in its job where socialism is concerned.

famousforwrongreason · 29/06/2020 02:24

@Euclid, what exactly has starmer done that's so impressive?
He's made Johnson look an idiot in pmq but we all knew this anyway.
Starmer speaks for a living, that's his job to use persuasive arguments in a public forum. How does that translate into him actually doing something practical for the good of this country, or indeed for the beleaguered Palestinians? What has he pledged to do which will actually change things other than publicly oust anyone from the party who has any links to Corbyns left wing politics?

CayrolBaaaskin · 29/06/2020 02:47

As a Jewish woman I am appalled at all those Jeremy Corbyn fans who support BLM. Seems only some people matter to them and not others. If you were genuinely anti racist you would support all forms of anti racism

CayrolBaaaskin · 29/06/2020 02:50

And Corbyns anti semitism has nothing to do with criticism of Israel. No one who has seen his approval of that ridiculous mural could say that

Twillow · 29/06/2020 02:54

What's your evidence that Corbyn was anti-semitic? I'm guessing his support for Palestine?
Denouncing some of Israel's appalling behaviour towards another race does not, I feel, make you anti-semitic, just as supporting BLM does not mean every black person is innocent.

Proudboomer · 29/06/2020 02:55

I don’t support Corbyn and hold him directly responsible for the fact that the Labour Party was unelectable and yes he is anti Semitic.
As to BLM I don’t support the organisation but agree with the statement that BLM. I also believe that all lives matter regardless of race, religion or sexual orientation.

eaglejulesk · 29/06/2020 03:11

If you're waiting for a perfect politician or a perfect political party OP, you might as well resign yourself to a lifetime of not casting a vote.

Yep - sometimes it has to come down to the lesser of two evils, and maybe it shouldn't be like that but it always has been. Anyone thinking otherwise is naive and doomed to permanent disappointment.

Mimishimi · 29/06/2020 06:06

I don't think Corbyn is antisemitic but I think he was too naive about the Israeli/Palestinian issue and what is really going on re results of fascism in the West . And yes, there has been massive minimization of the holocaust going on for various agendas and it's a very scary time for a lot of people. They do remember the last time all too well and that has certain very powerful people very upset because they can't just whitewash their role in it all and they feel disrespected because everyone just thinks they stole everything and murdered millions (and not just Jews) , which they did.