To feel emotional at the slave trader statue

[Millicent10]

being pulled down earlier.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-52954305

This says so much and the symbolism of throwing it in the river is such a suitable ending. Reminds everyone what happened to so many slaves.

Priti Patel condemning the people who brought down the statue but not Trump for being a racist areshole who uses tear gas on peaceful protesters 🙄🤔

So the onus is on the oppressed to devise clear strategies and bring about effective change? So you want BAME people to deconstruct a problem they didn’t create? Sounds about right

It's the same attitude shown to women when they speak out against male violence, theybget shouted down with the NAMALT stuff and then they get told "well instead of complaining, do something about it". The answer now is the same as then - it is not the job of the victim(s) to fix the behaviour of the perpetrator(s).

I think the relevant question there is "who is being oppressed by the legacy of what the Vikings or the builders of Stonehenge did?"

Perhaps the first question to be asked is "Does the actions of this person still affect society today?" and in the case of slavers dealing in the trade of black human beings, then undoubtedly the answer is yes.

@BilboBercow

Excellent point.

We don't need statues of slave traders to remember that the slave trade existed. If we need any statues at all, it should be one symbolising/showing those slaved being freed and commemorating it becoming illegal/similar. It is one of the worst parts of our history, and while it shouldn't be forgotten (for the purposes of learning from it), it certainly shouldn't be glorified or shown in a positive light.

It should have been taken down a long time ago, but I'm sure as a few PP have mentioned, people in the council are probably happy the decision was taken for them. I'm sure people in groups like Britain First would have been against it, sadly...

Glad the horrible statue is gone. Flabbergasted the council ignored requests for it to be taken down.

I remember when Saddam Hussein's statue was pulled down. This reminds me of that in some way. Good for them. I don't think they should be prosecuted.

The vast majority of powerful people in the past were utter bastards by today's standards. I disagree with the desecration of his statue but by today's standards Churchill was a racist bastard.

A few choice quotes/remarks:

1. I do not admit for instance that a great wrong has been done to the Red Indians of America or the black people of Australia. I do not admit that a wrong has been to those people by the fact that a stronger race, a higher-grade race or at any rate a more worldly-wise race, to put it that way, has come in and taken their place.

2)He explicitly told his Secretary of State for India, Leo Amery that he "hated Indians" and considered them "a beastly people with a beastly religion".

3)During the Bengal famine of 1943, Churchill said that because Indians bred "like rabbits", relief efforts would accomplish nothing.

4)In his private diaries, Amery wrote "on the subject of India, Winston is not quite sane" and that he didn't "see much difference between Churchill's outlook and Hitler's."

5)He also described the Arabs as a "lower manifestation of humanity" than the Jews who he treated a "higher grade race".

Bye bye Churchill statues?

I'm more flabbergasted that there were people who were insistent on the wording for a new plaque be downplayed so as not to focus on the man's slavery, and to concentrate more on his "good deeds".

Well, about the vikings. The normans (norseman) were esentially vikings who had settled in France.
When they conquered Britain, as well as committing genocide in the north and destroying the social contract that the saxons lived by, they established a ruling class that, to this day owns most of the land in the UK.

Viking Statue in York be removed because of their crimes of rape or even Stonehenge levelled because they used slave labour??

They aren't commemorating one single person though, they're markers of historical periods that don't actually say "look at this one dude right here, isn't he fucking magnificent? Look at all the bloody cash he gave us! But don't look too hard or you'll see that it is actually bloody..."

Cromwell should come down, I'm sure they could figure out a statue to signify the signifcwnt changes wrought over the time period without commemorating a genocidal dictator.

No one is rewriting the past by pulling down an offensive and highly inappropriate statue. We all remember hitler and there are no statues of him in Germany. And I bet more people have learned about Colston today than those who ever looked at this statue.

The plinth could be left empty with lots of informational and educational signage about the man, his atrocities, the blm movement and what led to it being pulled down. This is history too, and a huge learning experience for a lot of people. Or it could be replaced with a more noteworthy historical figure who should be celebrated.

Those harping on about democracy... democracy failed the black community by letting this stand. Many, many petitions and campaigns have been put forward to remove it and they’ve always been dismissed, which speaks volumes about the entrenched racism in the system.

MMilkTrays comments are abhorrent and I hope @mnhq have banned their IP address. Disgusting views like that have no place in this society.

Sajid Javid as well. I actually had a tiny bit of respect for him for quitting as chancellor because he didn't agree with Bojo that he should get rid of his advisors to put in the ones that Goings wanted. The little twerp has been quiet but decided to speak NOW against the people bringing down the statue? And then to revel in the fact that he's black (his words) and speaking against this, in order to get the racists on board. What a traitorous cunt.

Churchill was responsible for the deaths of millions of people.

We're not in a time when we can look at him without the emotion of the war, so it'll be a while yet before future generations can look at him and decide what to do.

Churchill also engineered the mass murder of leftists in Greece.

I don't suppose the protestors who started pulling down the Berlin Wall were acting legally...

👍

clearly the above poster is one who would still exist if WW2 had gone the other way...

We must be never be allowed to forget the past (So we can hopefully learn from it!) but to have this as a statue in the city is just plain wrong.I’m sure he MAY have done some good things but he will always be predominantly know for slavery and that should never be put on a pedestal. It’s almost like celebrating Bristols slavery past and that is 🤮

I'm more flabbergasted that there were people who were insistent on the wording for a new plaque be downplayed so as not to focus on the man's slavery, and to concentrate more on his "good deeds"

This goes back to many previous discussions on MN about how society will forgive men will virtually any abhorrent behaviour so long as they happen to be considered valuable and/or important (e.g., sportsmen). The insistence that we should focus on someone's good deeds and ignore the bad things they did stems from this.

Stonehenge used slave labour?
do you have references for that?

I've lived in Bristol for over a decade and I'm delighted the statue is gone. And what a very Bristol way of doing it. I don't know if this was the protesters' intention but the bridge next to where they threw it in the harbour is called Pero's Bridge, named after a victim of the slave trade. I thought that was a nice touch.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pero%27s_Bridge

And I agree with PP that it should be melted down and recast as a memorial to those who suffered in the slave trade. In or somewhere outside the M Shed would be a good place

Imagine how fucked up you'd have to be to be upset at the statue of a notorious mass murderer being torn down.

Priti Patel calls it "utterly disgraceful". She would have been absolutely brilliant in some totalitarian regime or in some ancient medieval inquisition. I can just picture her condemning the some poor bastard bread thief to death by hungdrawn and quartering instead of a simple hanging "to send a message to the common people that disorder shall not be tolerated"

Priti Patel has written a guest post for MN and will apparently be coming back to answer some of the posts. Here is a link if anyone would like to ask her anything:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/guest_posts/3927682-Guest-post-from-the-Home-Secretary-The-most-vulnerable-children-urgently-need-more-protection-during-lockdown?pg=1

I was there today when the statue was pulled down and it was emotional... powerful... I know people thought it was a "violent" act but it was actually celebratory.

I agree the statue should be pulled out of the harbour, melted down and re-made into something more appropriate.