Childcare setting open but giving DS no sessions

[NoIDontWatchLoveIsland]

DS attends a preschool covering the two years prior to primary school. Usually max 20 kids, but typically there might be 15 or 16 or so on a normal day. Open term time only, similar to school hours.

Have reopened from 1 June but only giving sessions to the 2nd years, those due due to start school in Sept. Have less than half usual numbers in. Govt funding still being claimed for the children who have been given no sessions, and those parents are unable to leave and use funding elsewhere as a terms notice is required.

Communication has been vague and isn't making clear what's limiting the ability to offer sessions to kids in the 1st year (eg perhaps staff are shielding?) Theres vague suggestion of trying to get the 1st years in but with a start date pushing ever closer to the school holidays.

AiBU to be pissed off? It feels like the staff had written off the summer term (most have their own kids) and never really expected/wanted to reopen, but are trying to comply with the requirement to reopen to continue getting funded hours money, while actually offering as little as possible.

My DS is desperately bored at home and really wants to go back. I cant even take the funded hours and use them with DS old childminder so he could have a change of scene.

I think if they had even been able to offer DS a single session (of the four he usually has), I wouldn't mind but nothing? I also would mind less if they gave a good reason eg "we usually have x staff but unfortunately y are shielding therefore we can only accept z% of usual children". But they are not doing this.

All the nurseries I know are only offering places to limited groups of children at the moment. Those with key worker parents, who are classed as vulnerable/with sen and extending to this years school leavers and then beyond if possible. This is in line with the government's advice. I don't know if any are taking on new children permanently at this time. I can't imagine so.

I think a pp had it spot on to be honest. Can't remember who it was now but their post started with them mentioning that they're a childcare provider. The small groups and bubbles that settings are expected to provide mean that intake has to be limited at this time. Some children have to take priority and at this time yours, and mine, aren't. There's only a few children at nursery for whom I am genuinely worried about the impact of their time off, for reasons beyond boredom. The majority will be absolutely fine. This will be a period they are unlikely to remember even.

I can understand why staff might be reluctant to return and even hand their notice in. It's one of the industries where workers are potentially at most risk. And unlike in most other industries, we cannot socially distance, wear ppe, avoid contact. We will physically take children from their parents, change nappies, give hugs. I cannot think of any other workplace where people will be so physically close and not be wearing ppe. We don't know how covid will affect us or our family members. You can say the risk to most is low, but you can't guarantee that. Many people have taken the governments messaging to heart and are afraid. I wish some people would remember that nursery staff/managers etc are people too, normally on minimum wage and frequently pouring their time, heart and soul into the children they care for. I'm not necessarily aiming that at you op. But on lots of these threads the attitudes are awful. People are desperate for childcare services to go back to normal - including me. But I think sometimes there's a tendency to think that school/nursery staff need to get on with it. You expect to catch head lice frequently, maybe a tummy bug, but not a potentially harmful novel virus. Lots of my colleagues are fearful and I can understand why.

I think with a 3 year old in a pre school, you have little to no chance of getting any hours before September. You might be better going for a nursery. However, you are not going to find one now before September and could find yourself in a worse situation if you move now given that there could still be restrictions in Sept.

@winniesanderson

All the nurseries I know are only offering places to limited groups of children at the moment. Those with key worker parents, who are classed as vulnerable/with sen and extending to this years school leavers and then beyond if possible. This is in line with the government's advice. I don't know if any are taking on new children permanently at this time. I can't imagine so.

I think a pp had it spot on to be honest. Can't remember who it was now but their post started with them mentioning that they're a childcare provider. The small groups and bubbles that settings are expected to provide mean that intake has to be limited at this time. Some children have to take priority and at this time yours, and mine, aren't. There's only a few children at nursery for whom I am genuinely worried about the impact of their time off, for reasons beyond boredom. The majority will be absolutely fine. This will be a period they are unlikely to remember even.

I can understand why staff might be reluctant to return and even hand their notice in. It's one of the industries where workers are potentially at most risk. And unlike in most other industries, we cannot socially distance, wear ppe, avoid contact. We will physically take children from their parents, change nappies, give hugs. I cannot think of any other workplace where people will be so physically close and not be wearing ppe. We don't know how covid will affect us or our family members. You can say the risk to most is low, but you can't guarantee that. Many people have taken the governments messaging to heart and are afraid. I wish some people would remember that nursery staff/managers etc are people too, normally on minimum wage and frequently pouring their time, heart and soul into the children they care for. I'm not necessarily aiming that at you op. But on lots of these threads the attitudes are awful. People are desperate for childcare services to go back to normal - including me. But I think sometimes there's a tendency to think that school/nursery staff need to get on with it. You expect to catch head lice frequently, maybe a tummy bug, but not a potentially harmful novel virus. Lots of my colleagues are fearful and I can understand why.

You post is lovely and very understanding of a difficult situation. We are people too and most of us are very worried about our health and the future. The conflicting advice about face masks makes us feel worthless and the bottom of the pile.

@Cremebrule the cut off for amendment mid term is the 25th june. Contact your current nursery to get them to contact your councils nursery funding dept asap to cease funding at that nursery. The new nursery need to apply for the funding too prior to the 15th

@Cremebrule not the 25th! The 15th. You only have until the 15th.

For some reason auto correct is messing up my numbers sorry

Yes, I looked at the guidelines. It makes for interesting reading.

They are deliberately vague. On the one hand an extremely cautious position is presented as "preferred" but then often theres a clear extension where providers can flex that.

Eg Keeping group sizes to a maximum of 8 children is preferable so groups are as small as possible, and providers are expected to ensure that there are no more than 16 children in a group in early years settings.

Why did the government include the reference to 16 in a group if it's not allowed? Everyone on this thread has actually said 8 is the maximum. It's not. 8 is preferred. But actually 16 is allowed. It's a huge difference. It's the difference between staying in business or not.

What's happening though, understandably, is most providers are taking the absolute most cautious position possible. I'm not sure its what the government expected, or they simply would not have included the 16 at all.

[quote Wifeofbikerviking]@Cremebrule the cut off for amendment mid term is the 25th june. Contact your current nursery to get them to contact your councils nursery funding dept asap to cease funding at that nursery. The new nursery need to apply for the funding too prior to the 15th[/quote]
My LA aren't doing any mid term adjustments this term.

Wifeofbikerviking
Thanks for flagging that date of 15th.

I think you are being unreasonable. Honestly, there are guidelines at play here and if they have their year 2s in and that takes up all the available staff (remember these same staff couldn't work with a second group (ie your son) on a different day it would have to be new staff and they may just not have that many. Remember some staff may be clinically vulnerable or have their own children that can't go back to school yet.

I do agree with you that in my opinion the risks are very low within an early years setting but obv they still have to follow the guidelines given just in case.

@NoIDontWatchLoveIsland

Yes, I looked at the guidelines. It makes for interesting reading.

They are deliberately vague. On the one hand an extremely cautious position is presented as "preferred" but then often theres a clear extension where providers can flex that.

Eg Keeping group sizes to a maximum of 8 children is preferable so groups are as small as possible, and providers are expected to ensure that there are no more than 16 children in a group in early years settings.

Why did the government include the reference to 16 in a group if it's not allowed? Everyone on this thread has actually said 8 is the maximum. It's not. 8 is preferred. But actually 16 is allowed. It's a huge difference. It's the difference between staying in business or not.

What's happening though, understandably, is most providers are taking the absolute most cautious position possible. I'm not sure its what the government expected, or they simply would not have included the 16 at all.

Why on earth would the preschool go for the riskier option just for you?

If you are that worried about your child not having enough social interaction, go and meet a friend for a walk.

Remember some staff may be clinically vulnerable or have their own children that can't go back to school yet.

Totally agree with clinically vulnerable but fyi childcare workers are classed as key workers and can send their children to school.

Why on earth would the preschool go for the riskier option just for you?

I didn't say that I expected that. I was merely openly speculating as to why the government included that. Why do you think they did, Sandiecheeks?

I know they're key workers but a lot of schools aren't giving out new places even for keyworkers. A lot of schools haven't opened yet. This is the case with my child's school. Also school hours aren't enough to cover a full time job in a nursery and a lot of the wrap around services aren't allowed to operate just yet.

‘Everyone on this thread has actually said 8 is the maximum. It's not. 8 is preferred. But actually 16 is allowed. It's a huge difference. It's the difference between staying in business or not.’

From my perspective, I’m keeping to 8, because it’s ‘preferred’ If I go higher and it goes wrong then I’d be responsible, and the risk for me is too high.

My local LA have sent emails telling us to take our time and make sure it’s safe and all risk are taken into consideration.
If a child gets ill at nursery, I don’t want it said that I didn’t follow the guidance and put money first.

Wifeofbikerviking Thank you. I’ll ask my nursery to cease the funding.

Through all of this, I think the government has neglected the early years sector. I noticed some of the guidance just seemed to be c&p from the schools without tailoring to small children etc. I know ours isn’t opening for profit reasons. That’s fair enough as they are a business at the end of the day but if the government want children back and childcare in place there is a massive disconnect.

@NoIDontWatchLoveIsland

Why on earth would the preschool go for the riskier option just for you?

I didn't say that I expected that. I was merely openly speculating as to why the government included that. Why do you think they did, Sandiecheeks?

Because for some settings it may be impossible to keep groups to 8, especially if they don't have more than one room. For some settings it would be impossible to reopen if they could only have 8.

Similarly schools can have classes up to 15, but most seem to be keeping them as small as possible for safety - my Yr 1 child is in a group of 6.

Most people want to keep the risks as low as possible in schools and childcare settings. Even if it means their child doesn't go back straight away.

Totally agree with clinically vulnerable but fyi childcare workers are classed as key workers and can send their children to school.

FYI we are closed as critical workers, and mine and 3 of my staff children’s schools are not increasing their capacity above what they have had over the past term.

Classed

I noticed some of the guidance just seemed to be c&p from the schools without tailoring to small children and it took them three weeks to bother.

Freddiefox

I do sympathise actually because I basically think its what the government wants. In order for things to resume, someone has to bear some risk. The government are tossers and refusing to bear the responsibilities they are paid to take, so they worded this to push all risk to the early years sector. I imagine huge nursery chains will have a legal team who will decide they can take a bit of risk but for small providers the government have been arseholes, I dont disagree.

Because for some settings it may be impossible to keep groups to 8, especially if they don't have more than one room.

Impossible how? You mean impossible without meaning some children couldn't be given a place?

Oh. Wait a minute. Yeah

@NoIDontWatchLoveIsland

Because for some settings it may be impossible to keep groups to 8, especially if they don't have more than one room.

Impossible how? You mean impossible without meaning some children couldn't be given a place?

Oh. Wait a minute. Yeah

Impossible to be financially viable.

Although a bubble may consist of 16 children staff ratios for 3+ years are 1-8 so there still needs to be enough staff in to cover this. For 2-3's the ratio is 1-4.

@NoIDontWatchLoveIsland

Freddiefox

I do sympathise actually because I basically think its what the government wants. In order for things to resume, someone has to bear some risk. The government are tossers and refusing to bear the responsibilities they are paid to take, so they worded this to push all risk to the early years sector. I imagine huge nursery chains will have a legal team who will decide they can take a bit of risk but for small providers the government have been arseholes, I dont disagree.

Thanks I appreciate the post.

It really is horrendous, I have staff devastated that they don’t feel safe. I have parents pushing to open.
Some want to wear face masks, parents don’t want them too. No one is more important, but health and safety has to come first at every turn.
Most children have been in open spaces, or at home, most haven’t been in a position to catch the virus. Yet we are told that they are low risk.
At every point the government have failed us as a country. I no longer trust them to tell me anything that doesn’t work in their favour. Honestly they are fuckers looking out for themselves well now so am I.

Freddiefox

What will eventually happen is that the govt will be so desperate to get the economy back off the ground they will release much more relaxed guidelines and simply stop paying anywhere/anyone that doesnt return to normal. Not yet obviously, but sadly i think this whole thing has left so many people excessively afraid and for those people it will be a hard adjustment to get comfortable with the reality that covid 19 is not going to kill us all.