The English started the slave trade

[Annamaria14]

I just saw a black American woman post online,

"The English started the slave trade. They caused all our problems, they hurt generations of people. I will never set foot in that country".

What do you think? I felt a bit guilty, because the English did cause a lot of problems around the world. Have we learned from our past. How can we do better in the future

@MockersxxxxxxxSocialDistancing @user1471565182
Let us not forget that the "Gold Coast" was settled by the Swedes, and then seized by the Danes , who eventually sold it to the British. The Scandinavian countries seem to have been written out of the New World's history, though Denmark was fifth biggest trader in volume of the trans-atlantic slave trade.

Yes, in Glasgow too - that thrived on the tobacco trade through the work of enslaved people. In recent days many streets that had been named after merchants who profited by this trade were renamed by activists to highlight either black victims of police malpractice or black peoples who stood up for their civil rights e.g, Rosa Parks

I get what you're saying but it's sad that Glaswegian children will grow up with the shame of their forebears - was nothing good done in Glasgow that they could be proud of? Oh, yeah I suppose there could be a Bill Connelly street in amongst all those American names.

We need to be sorting out Britain not bowing to 'more important countries with more important histories' than ours.

Started with the Portuguese, who were first in and last out of Africa.

And the British Gold Coast was the first colonised territory to become an independent African nation. Not something that happened overnight. The process of bringing Africans to the bench, the bar and into the legislature happened over decades. No question the British were the best decolonisers.

British Gold Coast later Ghana home of the Ashtanti empire, a buch of rapacious slavers who did very nicely thank you out of the transatlantic slave trade. And the descendants of the people they enslaved name their kids after them.

Greeks, Egyptians, Romans, Portuguese, Spanish, French, Britain, Belgium, Germany and it still goes on today

I really have to say that the lack of proper education British people get on their own history is really something. Well, ignorance is bliss, I guess.

I’ve loved this thread and it’s informative posts on world history. If only proper history was still taught in schools in an integrated way.

Unfortunately, people will continue to cherry pick “facts” out of context to further their agenda. People concentrate on snap shots i history, amounting to no more than seconds in the history of mankind.

Modern British people (And other nations who participated) are no more responsible for the Atlantic slave trade than modern citizens of Rome are responsible for the atrocities (and slavery carried out by the Roman Empire).

Should Spanish Protestants accumulate in St Peters square throwing petrol bombs at the Vatican buildings until an apology is set out for the torture in the Years around the 15th and 16th. Should English catholic’s riot round Canterbury cathedral demanding its return?

The past is the past - it cannot be altered. What happened cannot be viewed with the eyes shaped by what we have seen in our life times.

What we can do is try and alter our lifetimes. If we look around us we can see many people disadvantaged in a society shaped collectively by our world’s past. Is this the reason why the worst performing group at school are white working class boys, why we are still seeing girls have their genitals mutilated, why women are transported into sexual slavery, why many women remain at a disadvantage to men in so many spheres of their lives. Why people who are not neuro typical end up being ostracised by society and end up being medicated heavily to be more like the “norm” why people who think differently are bullied and humiliated, often forced to live their lives as a lie, why disabled people have to work twice as hard to be accepted into roles they are perfectly able to fulfil?Is it why people who do not want to form a male/female marriage contract are disadvantaged and have lost their lives due to this position.

Surely the current concentration on injustices for black people is just another division in society? Surely kindness, integration, understanding, acceptance and ultimately freedom for everyone to live their lives how they wish is the main goal for humanity.

At the end of the day, the way forward actually lies, not in the hands of people being told to apologise for thins they haven’t done, but the people who feel aggrieved. If they continue to be unforgiving futures will only be defined by anger and the need to get retribution. Only when the past is left in the past without blame can we take its message For everyone to work together to shape a better future.

Sadly that's true. And it's still happening. KS3 English history teaching at my childrens school meticulously runs from 1066 to the end of the English civil war then jumps to the suffrage movement and WW1 and 2. The do 1 week on the trans Atlantic slave trade (about how the British stopped it - hurrah) presumably to tick some box and nothing about colonialism at all.

Surely kindness, integration, understanding, acceptance and ultimately freedom for everyone to live their lives how they wish is the main goal for humanity.

No- lifeisgenerallyfun- this last part is wrong, because people still wish to enslave, subjugate, or exploit others, and live off the wealth that generates. People still want to commit FGM/MGM, or abuse children, or animals, destroy cultural heritage of other 'non-approved' cultures, impose their political beliefs or religious beliefs on others.
This is the problem with saying we're all equal and enabling freedom of expression without protecting the vulnerable from those that do not value all equally, and do not have others' best interests at heart.

Seems like something happens in the USA and all of a sudden there's a "thing".
All the protests in England...well, where were they earlier this year, last year? All of a sudden the black people in the UK are unhappy yet they were fine until the death is the USA which isn't related to the UK :s
Now we have endless threads about how terrible the English are. Well, I don't think we should all be made to feel guilty because other people are racist or enslaved people in the past. Yes it's terrible bit don't paint us with the same brush.
It's like saying all Germans nowadays were responsible for WW2

Horehound I think you are on to something maybe BAME community or specifically black people were not aware of racism until that video

My god the ignorance on this site is utterly shameful

It's not about blaming people. It's about understanding how what happened then is shaping what happens now. The racism we see today, esp in the States but also here, has it roots in the trans Atlantic slave trade. Pretty hard to commit atrocities towards a people on a mass scale without dehumanizing them first (see also: the holocaust). What we did during the slave trade lay the foundations for our colonial expansion and all the "bringing light and civilisation to the poor benighted masses" guff that facilitated it. And in that lies the roots of the racism that we see today.

Your comment just doesn't make sense.

Well no, horehound, I think BLM has been "a thing" in Britain for quite some time now, probably arriving around 6-12 months later than the US movement. People have been protesting the deaths of people from BME heritage in custody in Britain for some time too. People of BME heritage are far over-represented in arrest numbers, prison population, stop and search numbers etc.
I am in my forties, but we had Black History Month when I was in school, though in Britain that was still quite a significant time after it began in the USA.
Social Media, and the immediacy of news transferring around the world has just made adoption of movements for social change quicker.
British people of BME heritage have disproportionately suffered in this pandemic, something that was already beginning to raise awareness and the profile of the BLM movement. The reasons why will not be understood for many years, but the sooner we start to investigate them, the sooner we can start to mitigate those reasons.
So yes, you can say we're just jumping on the US bandwagon, or you could say that actually we owe it to our fellow Britons to make changes, to dismantle structural racism, to reduce inequalities.

Why does everybody always forget the french also fought in the opium wars?

Because the French don't tend to bang on about their Empire quite as much as the British ?

Horehound my comment ?

Well you have demonstrated your ignorance and it’s been called out so not surprised you have chosen to not get the sarcasm in my post

*We feel pride for winning World War two, none of us were there.

So why do people say we can't also feel guilt for things that the U.K. did in the past.*

Well, some of us were there. My grandparents certainly were. It was only 75 years ago. And feeling proud of defeating the Nazis, who were incredibly racist and killed millions of people due to their race/and or religion is a good thing. People are proud as if we hadn't had defeated them how many more people would've been wiped out?

Why would I feel guilt for something that happened 200 or more years ago? I have no connection with my ancestors (who were mostly servants and incredibly poor), and have no responsibility over their actions.
Me, or anyone else saying sorry for what happened generations ago does nothing. It's meaningless words.
We all know how terrible it was, and we can only ensure that it doesn't happen again.

Yes, we should dismantle it but it does seem a bit "woke" to kick off here when a black guy in USA dies and there's mass protests there. I can understand why that's happening there, absolutely.
I'm just not sure why, if black people are so angry about racism they experience on a daily basis, that they werent protesting previous to this.
I work with lots of black people, actually the department I work in has a majority of black people (8) and 3 white people in Scotland.
There is a change already happening.
Unfortunately things do not change overnight, for anything, and I'm not sure what we are actually supposed to be doing :/
Like, I have black friends,colleagues, I watch films with black people, read books by black people. I'm not sure what else I'm supposed to do!

Is that a joke DGR? Have you ever lived in France? The French count their DOM/TOMs as actual France, they will not be surrendering them any time soon. Many people only holiday "in France" ... meaning all over the globe. I have never seen such open racism in any country as I have in France. There are still pretenders to the throne from various lines FGS.

It is not coincidental that a thread about slavery which seeks to redefine its meaning in such a way as to edit out Empires and focus exclusively on England emerges at this point. The narrative goes like this. England (Scotland is edited out) is the architect of the slave trade, this has conferred centuries of collective guilt which needs to be atoned. The method of atonement isn't clear, but it involves deconstruction. Of what and by whom remains elusive. Reparations have been suggested. Details remain elusive. But what is required above all else is national shame. And the trigger for this national shame is an event on another continent. Attempts to point out the myriad inconsistencies, historical inaccuracies and Newspeak dictionary redefinitions are dismissed. There is an umbilical cord of guilt which links every white Brit with George Floyd's murder in Minnesota. What, I wonder, is the aim of this? How will the aim be achieved? Cui bono?

Is that a joke DGR? Have you ever lived in France?

Yes.

The French count their DOM/TOMs as actual France, they will not be surrendering them any time soon.

I know (Algeria etc).

I have never seen such open racism in any country as I have in France.

I agree.

However my point was that in an Anglophone world, we rarely hear about "The French Empire" and it's civilising effect on the world in quite the same we we are told that God is and Englishman.

Surely the current concentration on injustices for black people is just another division in society?

All of a sudden the black people in the UK are unhappy yet they were fine until the death is the USA

Mind-boggling. Truly mind-boggling.

Like, I have black friends,colleagues, I watch films with black people, read books by black people.
But you think BLM is wokeness?

There is a thread here you may like to read It has lots of really good links on it.

@7ofNine Japan colonised rather large parts of China (Manchuria etc). Reports of the activities of some people there were so shocking and deplorable I stopped reading. Many atrocities were committed, not all by Japanese invaders. (See Korea too) do you mean during WW2? Because I wouldn’t class that as colonisation any more than I would say the Germans colonised France.

@pp Wales had its own part to play in the transatlantic slave trade. Parys Mountain, the Swansea Copper industry, the wool woven by weavers in Montgomeryshire and Merionethshire Welsh plains cloth) etc.

According to Wikipedia Japanese colonisation policy began in 1895