The English started the slave trade

[Annamaria14]

I just saw a black American woman post online,

"The English started the slave trade. They caused all our problems, they hurt generations of people. I will never set foot in that country".

What do you think? I felt a bit guilty, because the English did cause a lot of problems around the world. Have we learned from our past. How can we do better in the future

and Im pritty sure the EU has told the UK to return the Elgin Marbles.

Ha, chestnut time! I recall a sanctimonious guide on the Acropolis lecturing us about Elgin's Evils but when someone asked about all the others, only a small number were removed, Oh, they had been smashed up by the Turks. Oh how we laughed at that.
Those permanently anti-British posters really should get out more, for example visit the Pergamon Museum in Berlin.
Sorry to upset your agenda but the British were not the only ones to remove, to safety, ancient works. Perhaps they should all have been smashed up by subsequent invaders then you would have been happy.

*MrsBthepatker

You are a nasty, nasty individual*

Thank you my dear. You actually know nothing about my origins, stating historical facts obviously upsets your little mind.

Slavery is separate from colonialism though both are exploitative. Instead of feeling guilty why not recognise Britain was quite early in banning slavery and also that slavery still exists in the world. Generally speaking Britain is a liberal welcoming society, despite that last 5 years of right wing agenda. Feel proud to be British, we may have a chequered history but we are also a nation that looks at its self and reforms.

@OreBrickWoodWheatSheep race is a relatively modern concept. It arose as a result of the globalism that occurred during the period of European colonisation of the rest of the world. Prior to that there is plenty of evidence of systematic prejudice on enthnic grounds (expulsion of Jews, Spartan subjugation of Helots etc) but you couldn’t claim it was based on racial theory because it simply didn’t exist in the way that we understand it today.

Fully support BLM and aggressive means to an end of racism but fucking sick of this blame england shit. No other country gets this. Do you ever see people tearing into modern germans for their ancestors crimes?

The elgin Marbles were being used to store gunpowder at one point......

Oh and Lord Elgin was scottish

What do you think? I felt a bit guilty, because the English did cause a lot of problems around the world. Have we learned from our past. How can we do better in the future

Are the English to blame for everything now? Seems like it lately.

Do you ever see people tearing into modern germans for their ancestors crimes?

Not that I want to blame the English again, but it is mainly just the English who still do this...

Not that I want to blame the English again, but it is mainly just the English who still do this...

The French, Russians, Polish don't? I'm surprised.

I don’t think China was ever a colony

I don’t think China was ever a colony * *

World class virologists though

China was made to accept treaty ports by the Western powers and the British forced them to accept Indian opium as payment for tea and the porcelain it was served in. Sent in the Navy to smash them up if they argued.

Anyways, what is it with some people. My reference to black house-slaves in the USA was a response to the suggestion that intra-African slavery wasn't so bad really, and I mentioned Sally Hemmings as an example so no, I was not excusing it and saying it was fine but noting that it was less brutal than being a field hand, a brood bitch (as they would have described her at the time) or target practice.

That was the USA where slavery was written into their filthy little Constitution by the slave-owners who wrote it. That was not Britain where slavery was never established domesitically because it was incompatible with British law. Our country's Bill of Rights of 1689 guarantees equality before the law for all, and our courts ruled that this applied to black and white alike and that slavery was false imprisonment. This is in contrast to the USA where the Supreme Court ruled in the Dredd Scott case that 'negroes' (as the ruling had it) were property and not people.

We are not America. Thank God.

Slavery has been going on since humans made civilisations. I think in some cultures and times they were treated better than in others. For example, a slave could buy themselves free.

In England at one time the peasants ‘belonged’ to the landowners and weren’t allowed to move areas without permission, although they weren’t true slaves in the sense of being sold and owned.

I think even in Africa there was slaves between tribes.

Whenever there is a power difference in two peoples the people - and especially the poorer people - of the less dominant society have been at risk.

So, no I don’t feel any shame or guilt for what our ancestors did but the continuing hostility between differing
people doesn’t have a place in a world where we know everyone has the same feeling and rights, no matter their race, skin tone, culture.

So I am getting seriously fucked off with people who dive in with both feet and don't read, as in:

1. The English started slavery.
2. • No they didn't, and here's why.
3. So you're saying that Black Lives don't Matter, you racist bastard. Etc.

Anyways, On the profits of slavery:

Yes, if you live in London, Bristol or Liverpool, you can see the fine buildings all around you built on the bones of the stolen. Acknowledge it. Then take a look at St Paul's Cathedral and have not truck with that claim that it was "built by Christopher Wren." He never laid a brick. That was the work of the labouring people, the ones who never profited from slavery but ended up having to pay taxes to compensate the slave owners when it was abolished. So no, if you are an ordinary poor sap who has to work for a living, you owe no debt to anyone.

Yes, if you live in London, Bristol or Liverpool, you can see the fine buildings all around you built on the bones of the stolen. Acknowledge it

Yes, in Glasgow too - that thrived on the tobacco trade through the work of enslaved people. In recent days many streets that had been named after merchants who profited by this trade were renamed by activists to highlight either black victims of police malpractice or black peoples who stood up for their civil rights e.g, Rosa Parks

Buchanan Street renamed George Floyd Street by activists.
Effective and peaceful way to bring attention to my cities shameful involvement in this trade, and an effective way to inform those ignorant of this.

And there must be plenty of present-day Weegies whose ancestors built the ships that carried the Triangular Trade. Acknowledge it. But don't point fingers and demand apologies from people today. Those men were not accesories to the crime. They were employed by the day or more likely the half-day trying to pay the rent and feed their families.

Nothing the ruling class likes more than the sight of the disposessed tearing into each other blaming each other for their plight.

Yes, we need to come together not be against each other. We were only just getting over the massive Brexit divide (I voted Remain) when CV19 came along. Let us hope we can come out of this united as one UK, all on the same side and all working to common goals of mutual prosperity and peace in the UK.

Why does everybody always forget the french also fought in the opium wars? I saw some belgian guy merrily dismissing the 14 million killed in the belgian congo with 'it wouldnt have happened with belgian mainland laws in place' and that was it. Why dont they have to hear about their ancestors crimes endlessly in weird context?

Don't forget the Dutch. Thoshe crazy liberal broad-minded Dutchies were some of the worst colonialists of all.

But unfair to blame your average Belgian sap squeezing mayo onto his frites. The Congo 'Heart of Darkness' was the personal fiefdom of the King. The Belgian govt refused to back his venture, so he did it anyway.

The past is past. Try to make the future better.
Did Obama ever play the victim card?

Obama not descended from slaves. Not really an African-American, more of an American African. Famously badmouthed by Jessie Jackson for not being black enough.

@Itisbetter Japan colonised rather large parts of China (Manchuria etc). Reports of the activities of some people there were so shocking and deplorable I stopped reading. Many atrocities were committed, not all by Japanese invaders. (See Korea too)

This has been a very interesting thread, with some extremely informative posts on it - thank you for those.

No-one can change the past, but we must all acknowledge it. We can change people's futures, but I doubt we will.
Yes, people will say BLM, "dismantle structural racism", #bekind, go on climate strike etc etc but without true individual change it is lip service only.
Inequalities in the world are vast. This pandemic, and the coming climate disaster will exacerbate them further.

But Britons still want their smartphones and laptops, to fly on holiday, fashion from Bangladesh, fried chicken and burgers, palm oil-ridden chocolate and biscuits and cakes etc. all of which cause huge suffering to someone or something somewhere else.

We want our nice comfortable lives, and very very few of us are willing to give up the comforts we have.

So nothing will change.