AIBU to think that separated parents should support their children equally

[Thinkofthekids]

I've been reading a couple of threads recently where separated parents raising their children are getting very little support from the other parent, either childcare or financial support.

"He has the children 4 nights a month, rearranges whenever it suits him and pays me £30 a week" seems to be a common complaint.

One of my close friends is in this position, only her ex has never had their child overnight and won't have him alone (without my friend being there) as it's too much hassle for him. She works 3 days a week and relies on government help to pay for childcare. She gets £30 a month from him, which he pays irregularly. Another friend is wfh nights doing data entry. She looks after her child all day, starts work after he goes to bed and finishes around 3am. Sometimes she does shift work during the day, while trying to care for him at the same time.

AIBU to be absolutely furious on the children's behalf? The NRPs go on about how the RP (usually but not always a woman) 'needs to get of her arse and get a job' and 'shouldn't expect a free lunch', and it makes me so cross. She's often working at least 1.5 jobs anyway (looking after the kids and then trying to fit paid work around them), while they are doing sweet FA for their children.

My DH and I have all these plans for our kids, lots of stuff we want them to experience and get a chance to do in life. Don't all parents have these plans, even if their relationship doesn't work out and they split up? Don't the children still deserve a decent life, not the bare minimum? Why is it acceptable to leave your kids in difficult circumstances and your ex unable to get a decent well-paid job due to childcare commitments and then claim to be a good dad because you pay £30 a week and have the kids a few nights a month (cancelling whenever it suits you)?

AIBU to say that a decent parent is responsible for 50% of their children's day-to-day care and 50% of their expenses? And if they are not providing regular, committed childcare, they should pay closer to 100% of the children's expenses? Otherwise, they are not a decent parent. Being a parent brings many joys but it is also a huge commitment and burden. The burden of parenting should be shared equally by both parents, and we need a system which achieves this.

Well yeah but if you've chosen to be rp then do you not accept that somewhat?

But it's often not a choice. I doubt many people choose the burden of single parenthood. Someone has to take the children. Usually it's the person who's been providing most of the everyday care before the relationship ends. It is a societal expectation and an act of love, but not a choice. Often the NRP is not demanding primary/shared care but working on escaping the burdens of parenthood as quickly as they can...

@HugeAckmansWife

They would be paying for HALF of it, not all, and only the portion not covered by any childcare benefit.

So would the parent claiming benefits or tfc be forced to disclose their payments to ensure the other parent was only paying their fair share?

@Thinkofthekids I actually agree that both parents should take equal responsibility for their shared children.
I'm divorced with a thankfully very amicable 50/50 agreement with my exh who is just as capable of parenting as I am. However my personal experience is that when I speak to other separated mother's many of them would be absolutely anti genuine 50/50 shared care. I've even had women accuse me of loving my children less than they do because I agreed to their father taking equal responsibility for them.
The reality is unless society, including or even especially women, have a complete change as attitude regarding the roles of both sexes in the care of children your utopia cannot happen.

Well the nrp has to declare his income for cms so yes, there would have to be some transparency, or invoices generated from the childcare provider that simply gave the total due, having already taken off the part paid by CTC. None of these solutions are easy and they wouldn't be necessary if everyone who created a child stepped up and did the right thing.

I don't know that splitting everything 50/50 would work, but something certainly needs to change.

My ex hasn't paid me any maintenance for about 5 years now and hasn't seen the DC since before lockdown.

@TrustTheGeneGenie

Google reckons £400 a month per child before childcare of housing

Based on what exactly? Before childcare or housing I don't spend even nearly that on Ds!

Based on an average of costs across 18 years of a total of 76-102k per child. So I assume it covers from buying the cot and pram and new baby clothes, through to buying books for school for A Levels. Obv it isn't a standard 400 pm every month for 18 years but God knows what it includes. We have 3 under 5, we def don't spent 1.2k a month on them.

My stbexh is paying 100% of the kids costs (university aged) so it does go both ways - I chose to move away (though he left me) so he looks after the family home and I just cover my own costs out of what I earn plus £800 spousal maintenance. High income earner I admit. We won't fully split finances until after they graduate because we want them to have a home

@thisisnotwhatisignedupfor

It's lovely to hear that there are some shared care arrangements where both parents parent and provide equally . Where this works and children feel valued by both parents, this must be the best solution (at least for older children).

I do agree that many separated mums need to be more willing to share care with their exes, if this is logistically possible and in the best interests of the children. It would be good for the mums too, as they could hopefully use the time to build towards a more financially secure future.

Just want to say @TrustTheGeneGenie I agree with all your points.

Nothing gets my judgey pants on quicker than someone who doesn't care for their children or someone who dodges paying their fair share. I struggle to want anything to do with them once that comes to light.

That said, 50/50 residency is often a bit of a shitty deal for the kid too, especially as they grow older. Most adults wouldn't like having to flit between two homes all the time, nor would you like it when you caught on how happy your family is when it's their turn to be free of you for a few days, nor is it nice when you catch your parents arguing over looking after you as if you were an unpleasant chore to be avoided. So for those reasons I can understand why some families avoid 50/50.

I don't think there can be a one size fits all wrong/right for parents who have split up. But yes, child maintenance payments need to be as automatic and unavoidable as national insurance.

I think we're looking at the issue completely backwards. The difference in responsibility for children doesn't begin when the parents relationship ends, our whole society is set up to value mothers more than fathers.
Obviously women need maternity leave to recover from pregnancy and birth and to enable them to breast feed, but that time allows women to establish a routine and bond with the baby that men through no fault of their own can't.
I've known some men who don't want to look after their children but I've also known women who undermine the father from the start. We women all too often don't trust the father to look after the baby; we take the baby when they cry, we tell the father he's 'doing it wrong', we give detailed instructions of what he must do if we leave the child with him, we often believe we have 'more rights' to make decisions on how to care for our children.
If we want men to take equal responsibility we must allow them equality in child related matters from the start.

If we want men to take equal responsibility we must allow them equality in child related matters from the start

I agree with this.

If we want men to take equal responsibility we must allow them equality in child related matters from the start

That does smack a little of blaming the woman for the man’s shortcomings...

But in reality when men go to court for access they get the bare minimum don't they.. because they're not the main parent.

So if we live our lives as equal parents.. it's more likely to carry on post split should it happen.

It's not just down to women. It's down to everyone as parents.

But as above that doesn't work for everyone so!

It's not just down to women. It's down to everyone as parents

Right, I agree. But you’d think a man might be able to work out that with children comes costs? Too many men manage to wiggle out of paying what they should, they KNOW they need to but don’t because it’s socially acceptable still for a man not to provide for his children.

IMO the CMS are partially culpable for not using the measures at their disposal to enforce non-payment of CMS.

But you’d think a man might be able to work out that with children comes costs?

Of course but that is not the point I was making in fact I didn't even refer to money. I meant active parenting actually being there doing stuff not footing the bill for it.

I agree CMS are crap, some men are crap. It's not ok but it's not what I was referencing at all really.

Of course but that is not the point I was making in fact I didn't even refer to money. I meant active parenting actually being there doing stuff not footing the bill for it

Absolutely. But surely post split money becomes a point you can’t not make? It’s all part and parcel of providing care for your children.

@FatalSecrets apologies I didn't mean to blame women for the men out there who are just lazy, I do accept that some men just don't want to parent their children but there are also some women who want to have the final say no matter what.
In regard to money, absolutely there are fathers who do everything they can to avoid supporting their children and they shouldn't be defended, but I do know of women who have refused a perfectly reasonable request for the children to spend more time with their loving and capable father because it will reduce CMS payments.
As I said before the issue is a societal one, we would have to completely change our whole attitude to childcare to achieve true equality.

@FatalSecrets

If we want men to take equal responsibility we must allow them equality in child related matters from the start

That does smack a little of blaming the woman for the man’s shortcomings...

Society needs to allow men to take equal responsibility at the start. That means adequate paternity leave from day one (that doesn’t subtract from the maternity leave). I’m talking months, not weeks. Plenty of other countries manage this

But in reality when men go to court for access they get the bare minimum don't they.. because they're not the main parent.

Citation needed.

What do you mean Dixie?

I think the reality is that many many men would not want 50/50, before or after a split. They wouldn't want to go part time, or be the one working just the se hours or taking the day off due to a sick child or inset day. So, after a split, if that continues to be the case, they need to provide a decent level of maintenence instead. As for their wives not 'letting' them step up when they're together again, I'm struggling to see this really.. Are these men so spineless they can't argue their case to their own wives? Or are these the same men who are tricked into fatherhood?

Absolutely. But surely post split money becomes a point you can’t not make? It’s all part and parcel of providing care for your children

Yes but if you're providing 50% of the care then your money only concerns you. Your obviously going to spend it on the child because if they're with you you've no choice but to!

Are these men so spineless they can't argue their case to their own wives?

It's not a case of being spineless. It's because it's normal for the women to take the burden and most do. I suspect a lot of women wouldn't particularly like the sound of shared parental leave or their husband going part time.