AIBU to ask why can’t racist and those who in engage in racially prejudiced behaviour take ownership and just admit who you are?

[DRWP]

AIBU to ask why can’t racist and those who in engage in racially prejudiced behaviour take ownership and just admit who you are?

Instead, you use racial micro aggressions, passive aggressive language, pejorative terms, excuses such as “it was normal in my day, it’s a generation thing” to justify your racism.
Do you think saying “I’m not a racist/prejudiced…but…” hides who you really are inside?

Over the last few days I have been watching a few threads both here and on another site. The level of ignorance displayed has been a real eye-opener. Even when posters have been confronted about the use of their offensive language and terminology, the wilfully ignorant have refused to check their behaviour and resort to the well-known tactic so beloved of the ignorant of calling people, snowflakes, politically correct, social justice warriors and so on. The people with the power refuse to acknowledge this power and acknowledge the inequalities happening right before their eyes.

An Irish poster on another site asked a question about the use of a well-known racial slur against her community. The first few posts confirmed what the poster already believed and she decided not to stay and educate the poster’s ignorance. The racists from the other thread piled over to her thread with their same nonsense. That was such a pity as it would have given her an opportunity to start a proper conversation about why some people feel the need to be racist and exhibit racially prejudiced behaviours.

If you are racist/prejudiced, just take ownership. This way, people can make an informed decision whether they want to interact with you and not have to waste time and energy deciphering your coded racist/prejudiced views.

I am referring to people who even when they are confronted with clear evidence of their prejudices and discriminatory behaviours continue to be in denial that they are racist/prejudiced
What kind of clear evidence?

Doing something unintentionally because of something subconscious becomes intentional if it is pointed out (becomes conscious) and the behaviour does not change, though.

I have read the thread about the use of “throwing a paddy”. The first few posters all said they had used it until they found out it’s meaning when they stopped using it, or they had never used it. I don’t see how you can say they were racist, they said exactly what you are saying, that it’s racist to continue to use something you KNOW to be racist, and it’s changing your speech when you learn that is important.

I don’t see anybody else being racist on that thread either? Maybe that makes me unconsciously racist in that I’m not recognising racism? Please show me the comments that you are referring to so that I can learn from them.

@Wheresthesanitygone

I have read the thread about the use of “throwing a paddy”. The first few posters all said they had used it until they found out it’s meaning when they stopped using it, or they had never used it. I don’t see how you can say they were racist, they said exactly what you are saying, that it’s racist to continue to use something you KNOW to be racist, and it’s changing your speech when you learn that is important.

I don’t see anybody else being racist on that thread either? Maybe that makes me unconsciously racist in that I’m not recognising racism? Please show me the comments that you are referring to so that I can learn from them.

If you return to that thread and read the comment posted at 5.22pm, you'll find the poster has provided examples.

One of those examples of things pp had said could be racist, the others frustration at the OP. I don’t see “racists from the other thread piled over to give her the same nonsense”? I don’t know what other thread you’re referring to, or even which site it was on. I’m just sick of people posting that other people are being racist/ misogynistic etc etc with no substance.

Why are you posting this on a different site to the one you are talking about? Most of the people you’re accusing of racism and bullying aren’t on this site and can’t reply, I guess I’ve answered my own question there, they can’t call you out on your accusations. And no, I’m not one of the posters you’re referring to.

@Wheresthesanitygone

One of those examples of things pp had said could be racist, the others frustration at the OP. I don’t see “racists from the other thread piled over to give her the same nonsense”? I don’t know what other thread you’re referring to, or even which site it was on. I’m just sick of people posting that other people are being racist/ misogynistic etc etc with no substance.

Why are you posting this on a different site to the one you are talking about? Most of the people you’re accusing of racism and bullying aren’t on this site and can’t reply, I guess I’ve answered my own question there, they can’t call you out on your accusations. And no, I’m not one of the posters you’re referring to.

Even when white people complain about experiencing racism, their views are also dismissed and minimised. There are enough examples of this on MN, too hence MHHQ taking down threads where posters subscribe to such views. You can continue to be sick about people being called out on their racist/discriminatory/prejudicial behaviours and I'll continue to ask people to discuss issues around racism/discrimination and prejudice.

Some posters on this thread have spoken about their experiences and what they have done to address them.

You can continue to be sick about people being called out on their racist/discriminatory/prejudicial behaviours and I'll continue to ask people to discuss issues around racism/discrimination and prejudice.

You’re twisting my words, I said I was sick of people posting that others were racist etc with no substance, not at people being quite rightly called out for actual racism. I too would like to discuss the real issues around racism, but without the need to call a group of people racist who you know weren’t, and can’t stand up for themselves. The ultimate TAAT, about a thread on a different forum.

DRWP

You might enjoy this research paper, which doesn't answer you question so much as it answers some questions about effective methods of reducing exclusionary attitudes.

www.ocf.berkeley.edu/~broockma/kalla_broockman_reducing_exclusionary_attitudes.pdf

I haven't read it all yet, and am likely to disagree with parts of it, but I thought of you when I came across it this morning.

@Wheresthesanitygone

You can continue to be sick about people being called out on their racist/discriminatory/prejudicial behaviours and I'll continue to ask people to discuss issues around racism/discrimination and prejudice.

You’re twisting my words, I said I was sick of people posting that others were racist etc with no substance, not at people being quite rightly called out for actual racism. I too would like to discuss the real issues around racism, but without the need to call a group of people racist who you know weren’t, and can’t stand up for themselves. The ultimate TAAT, about a thread on a different forum.

Thank you for your contribution, your comments have been noted. May peace be with you.

@janeskettle

DRWP

You might enjoy this research paper, which doesn't answer you question so much as it answers some questions about effective methods of reducing exclusionary attitudes.

www.ocf.berkeley.edu/~broockma/kalla_broockman_reducing_exclusionary_attitudes.pdf

I haven't read it all yet, and am likely to disagree with parts of it, but I thought of you when I came across it this morning.

Thank you for the link @janeskettle - this is the type of information I am looking for and will add to my resources in addition to shared personal experiences.

DRWP

You are part of the problem.

You made a very racist comment regarding 'white people'. I've actually hidden the thread because I didn't want to get involved . You were stirring up racial tension.

I'm hiding this thread now too.

@socialhermit

DRWP

You are part of the problem.

You made a very racist comment regarding 'white people'. I've actually hidden the thread because I didn't want to get involved . You were stirring up racial tension.

I'm hiding this thread now too.

Where did I make a racist comment about white people?

@sprocky999

Its surprising to actually see how many black people are racist these days too as it used to to be a predominantly white phenomenon. I often hear the chant of 'you have white privelage' levied. All that is is an assumption as to the kind of person someone is based on the colour of their skin.

Its unacceptable in ALL forms.

If you read my second post, I specifically state that this thread is not about black vs white. This is a discussion about people with racial/discriminatory/prejudiced views not taking ownership of them. Do you have anything to add that will elucidate why this happens?

@sprocky999

Its surprising to actually see how many black people are racist these days too as it used to to be a predominantly white phenomenon. I often hear the chant of 'you have white privelage' levied. All that is is an assumption as to the kind of person someone is based on the colour of their skin.

Its unacceptable in ALL forms.

AHH, but it isn't white privilege is simply the advantage white people have over BAME people. Every white person has it automatically. I do think the term privilege doesn't accurately represent the concept though.

There are an awful lot of posters who just have a visceral reaction to seeing a black person with any degree of visibility or power or who behaves in any way other than the strict roles they think black people should stick to. It’s so very obvious that racism and white supremacy runs through this forum and it’s insane the examples of very extreme racism people will deny is racist.

Some people are clearly starting from the POV “racism doesn’t exist and black people need to shut the fuck up” and will make silencing black people and defending/denying racism their hill to die on. It doesn’t matter how much overt racism there is, how many racial murders, they will fixate on funding the one tiny little detail, the one “bad black” so they can twist themselves into pretzels to cast black people as “thugs” and white people - even actual slave traders who mass murdered black slaves - as just misunderstood.

They don’t believe they are racist because they don’t believe racism exists, and because fundamentally they don’t, deep down, believe black people should have rights.

Something I hadn’t thought about before is political tribalism. I’ve seen posts on two threads this morning implying that anti-racism is inherently liberal/left wing. For many their political allegiance is an important part of their identity. If you perceive a certain thing as belonging to the rival side, you might decide you are morally obligated to do/support the opposite of whatever that thing is.

You see it occasionally with the trans debate. Posters will decide to be aggressively against some innocuous or positive thing just because some TRAs have decided to co-opt it. There was a debate about the disabled activism movement last year and posters were very aggressive in saying that disabled people were no longer allowed to use a certain term which has been used in the disabled community forever, just because TRAs had started using it too. I swear if a TRA announced that they were against kicking puppies some posters would consider it their moral duty to immediately go out and kick as many puppies as possible. That’s the extreme end of tribalism.

there nothing wrong with discriminating against black people

What the actual fuck

What? I'm assuming that there's an error in that sprocky because it sounds really bad.

You don't really mean that surely? It's never okay to discriminate for any reason.

@sprocky999

Id also like to add there nothing wrong with being discriminating against black people either, or white people for that matter.

the only time its racist and problematic is when its done solely on the colour of their skin as the primary reason for that discrimination.

Now @sprocky999, I'm intrigued! Can you clarify why discrimination is okay and in what context?

My SIL is the most racist person I’ve met and is a police officer.

She’s posted On fb saying She can’t believe people say the police are racist and that it’s just anti police thugs doing the demos who have no idea what it’s like being a copper. I’m sitting on my fingers to stop myself typing a reply which would cause a huge family row. She knows I 100% disagree with her views. When she’s spouted anti immigrant stuff and said that people in the U.K. shouldn’t be allowed to cover their face (nicabs, etc) I’ve disagreed with her.

Can’t believe she can post that on fb. Maybe she genuinely doesn’t think she’s racist? She makes jokes about “agents” which is her code word for Asians. I can’t see how she can’t know she’s racist. She seems quite proud of it to be honest.

@MrsTerryPratchett

Because people like to think of themselves as 'good'.

Because actually doing a self-inventory is painful and exhausting.

Because fish don't see the water. being raised in a racist country with racist history, racist maps, books and TV, racist ancestors and an economy and infrastructure based on racism means chances are you're a little bit racist. Which is very hard to look at.

Yes, it is hard to look at yourself and acknowledge your flaws. Self-analysis and reflection can be a painful process. Even more, so if your environment does not support you wanting to make changes. It can be hard to risk losing your family and support networks when you no longer share the same values.

@myohmywhatawonderfulday

So there are things that have been previously mentioned, such as acknowledging biases which is at a biological level. And working from a place of awareness of that to be able to move past it.

There is a 'saftey in numbers' aspect which also has a power dynamic in it. People rarely give up power and influence easily.

There is also proportionality. If there are more of a group - they will be more visible.

We need to learn how to disagree healthfully (and how hard is that in reality) ..Not everything from our culture is good and worth celebrating and nor is things from other cultures and so seriously how do we find the common ground, show respect and also disagree with cultures and practises?

No one is one thing - all good or all bad. And so people who express openly racist views can also show kindness and love.

But if you can show kindness and love, what is stopping you from extending that to the very people you are racist against?